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Sometimes you go for intimacy, but a girl stops you because she
feels
slutty. There are 5 major ways to help her past this: adventure, sexual
expertise, urgency, and more.
This is an old request from the GC topics queue – it goes back about four years or so. A reader (who happened to have attended my alma mater) had this to ask:
“Hey Chase, this was an absolute mind boggling article, gave a new perspective to things. Anyway, recently I went on a date to a local bar, Cafe 210 in State College if you know it. We stayed there had a few drinks and then I pulled her back to my place. I then made my move. I had her shirt and bra off, and then refused to take her pants off, and I tried everything to get them off but failed. She had the vibe that she was trying not to be slutty/easy, and was could tell she was experienced. This has happened several times to me with other girls. Im assuming I’m in BF territory, but any advice on making girls not feel slutty/easy would be great.”
You might think at first this is just a last-minute resistance issue. And you can treat it as such. However, if it is a pattern, where you encounter this repeatedly when you get women alone, it’s more than just LMR. The LMR is only a symptom of the overall problem. Girls feeling slutty about sex around you is the root.
If you can make a woman feel comfortable being sexual with you, you will not face this obstacle. Sure, a girl may still resist sex with you for any one of a number of other reasons... you may not have turned her on enough, the environment may not be conducive to it, or any of myriad other possibilities may be the case.
However, if you remove the “she feels slutty about sex” issue, this reason for resistance goes away.
And it should be noted here that this goes beyond any boyfriend considerations. That’s because if she does not see you as a boyfriend, but she still feels like it’d be slutty or too easy to sleep with you, she will resist sleeping with you. And meanwhile, even if she does see you as a boyfriend, if she feels like she can hop into bed with you and it won’t affect how you see her or her prospects with you (and she has no other reservations about intimacy with you), she will hop right into bed with you.
The key, of course, is you must remove the ‘too easy’, ‘too slutty’ objection, first.
Comments
Girls bumping into you / Classroom issues
Hey Chase,
Great stuff!
I remember reading bout girls feeling slutty in A2damir's reports :)
And this ties well together !
Re: Bumping into you / Physically clinging onto your arm
So we know girls want to fuck.
And they use signals too.
Question is what happens if they bump into you or cling onto your arm when you just met them (or maybe not open yet when she just walks from the opposite direction and bumps into your arm.. hard).
Now I remember reading your comment somewhere about how if a girl punches you in the arm during a conversation or something or initiates touch, you should move fast and get her somewhere intimate (I'm assuming this is for situations when you meet her or on first date, as opposed to long game).
So what are other signals women give that indicate "you CAN move fast!"?
And if the girls bumping into me (i didn't even notice them or open them yet) or clinging onto your arm and pushing herself against you (felt like I was dragging a corpse by my arm) be also the same thing you talked about in that comment (or article).
Re: Campus approaching same as day approach?
With that being said, girls walking from opposite direction and bumping into you...
Do we appproach on campus just as we approach in daygame?
Seeing a girl walk past us and then turn around, catch up to them and open direct on campus?
Only caveat I'm worried about is other girls I've approached seeing me approaching (if I do approach at the same time frame after my classes end).
However, I do have a big school and many students in classrooms (300 or 200?..yeah I've given up classroom dating, just too much of a hassle and girls like skipping classes).
The girl that bumped into my arm... or maybe I bump into her because I was thinking deep in thought and had my eyebrow furrowed too and boom she bumps me in the side.. (but then she would see me walking, and get out of the way right? Intentionally bumping into me then?)
She looked at me as our shoulders brush past and I was still deep in thought and didn't react quickly so I had that eyebrow furrow look. Strangely enough, it was one of the girls in my same class. She never came to class after that encounter XD...I don't know, beats me.
Lawliet
Girls Who Bump Into You
Lawliet-
Girls bump into you to get your attention, if you aren't talking yet (or it can sometimes be unintentional... but usually women know what they're doing). Sounds like that's what your classmate did.
Signs you can move fast are always going to be context- (and subtext-) dependent. e.g., a girl rubbing your arm in one context can mean "Get me out of here and let's bang!" while in another it may mean "What a fine platonic friend you are, but don't get the wrong idea." I'll try to get an article up on signs you can move fast soon... possibly this evening. Could make for a fun topic.
For the campus stuff, I suggest you ask Hector (or one of the other college-going members on the boards). I'd suspect you'd want to be more careful about it, but I did only a smattering of campus approaches in university and no campus street stops that I can recall right now.
When I was in school, the cafeteria, classrooms, etc., all served me fine as places to approach on-campus. Though I'm sure you can get away with day game stops on the sidewalk too, I just can't advise you on frequency / customs / etc.
Chase
What if she says she's not a
What if she says she's not a slut or she doesn't do this the first date or night?
And if she says you have to be my boyfriend .
What do you do
If She Says She's Not a Slut / Doesn't Do It on the First Date
SZ-
See this article:
We Are Not Having Sex Tonight: What Happens When You Don’t
The "you have to be my boyfriend first" objection is usually inexperienced girls. 50% of the time you can brush it off, get her hornier, and sex will happen. The other 50% she's not aroused enough or she's really set on locking you down and you'll need to finesse it a bit: [soft, sexy voice] "Why's that, babe? You've never had a lover before?" Etc.
Chase
“The people I respect most
“The people I respect most are the ones who go for what they want, opinions of others be damned.”
I have ghosted so many men that try this. IDC about being slutty. Many women hold out because we feel that sex is more natural when you feel comfortable and secure with a guy. Sex makes me automatically emotionally invested in a man so I need more time. So if a man isn't going to be in town much longer or doesn't have alot of time then why the fuck would I want to become attached by sleeping with him. I always wondered why men told me that. I stop talking to them right away. I need a man that has time for me. Women have vaginas, these things are in high demand so there is no urgency to sleep with a guy because he's hott there are tons of hott guys that will sleep with any women even the unattractive ones. The other thing men are usually disappointing when penetration is involved, sad but true. Making out and foreplay naked are usually more satisfying for some women. Especially when this is the only stage where most men care about what feels good to the woman. Once you sleep with a man usually the foreplay diminishes after the first time. So why sleep with a guy right away?? The only time I've slept with a guy was on the first date was a combination of things; it's been a very long time, extremely attracted to the emotionally and sexually, he wasn't trying to sleep with me, and I knew we would date awhile(because he's available and not too busy). The combination of those things all together not one without the other.
Most women say they wouldn't
Most women say they wouldn't sleep with a guy on first, yet most end up doing it anyway, usually with guys who don't take what they say at face value.
One Other Nuance
I would add too here, Jimbo, that Rere may be unaware men encounter different objections from different women, and must calibrate their objection-handling to the obstacles they encounter.
She's right in that if you use the wrong resistance buster with the wrong girl in a critical moment, it'll just make her feel like you don't get her or why she's resisting. e.g., take a girl who's worried she's going to miss the last train, and tell her "I don't judge people for doing what they want to do" and she'll get more resistant, not less, because it's clear you don't understand her issue and are not a reliable person to help her address her concerns. (I know you know this; just clarifying for readers)
However, if the reason for her resistance is that she fears you will judge her, and you let her know you don't judge people for doing what they want to do, that'll often be all you need to melt that resistance away.
(and in general you should seed non-judgmentalism early on in the courtship; an exception being for strongly opinionated women, who often hold the opinion that men who don't judge are weak and wishy-washy, in which case you'll want to skip any mention of being non-judgmental too early on, and can actually get away with being more opinionated, so long as your opinions don't clash too hard with hers. If you go on a date with Rere and she starts expressing a bunch of strong opinions, probably set the "I don't judge" discussion to the side)
Chase
Don't kiss and tell
All very true. We often focus on being attractive and on getting a girl excited and compliant from meeting to mating that we forget a girl has a host of other things to worry about that often need handling as well.
The "I don't kiss and tell" was especially good, I'll be using this one the next time a girl asks me about past experiences, I'd be like, "I'd like to keep what happens between me and past lovers between us, I think it's more romantic when the only people who'll ever know about some shared intimacy are those who partook in it." Something like that.
"Ribald"
Chase and his literary words though..
Questions
1. You think getting girls is worth all of the flakes and headaches ?
I was reading some stuff about guys getting flaked and a girl deciding not to see them anymore, and it just annoys me to see it because it reminds me about when it happened to me, it hits my ego and annoys me to no end.
When does this stuff not usually happen anymore?
2. How do you provide the girls chase way? I don't think you mean provide like shower her with gifts and pay her bills, what does the girls chase crew do with our women? Do we need a lot more money than her? How can we provide the best way that we won't drain our pockets or look like weaklings ? I remember you saying that it's good not to pay for dates in the beginning of a relationship because a woman will expect that forever. So are we not proving free meals? I'm so confused what to provide and keep them around, but not give them free rides.
I want to be single for a long time, just want tips when I decide to settle down for a while.
3. How do you provide for your girls chase (lol) to keep them past the 2 year drop ? I know you say you don't mention your job ? Do you ever? How do they know you will provide for them and they stick around? You don't seem like the gift showering dinner buying type, so I'm curious, plus you have no time for these women because you're working on so much stuff. So what do you provide them and have them stick around? And will you ever tell girls what you do ?
Thanks
Flakes, Providing for Women, Getting Women to Stay Girlfriends
SZ-
Flakes always happen. So long as you have a full pipeline of women though, and you date on your terms, it won't bother you. Some girl doesn't show up at the cafe you're at? No biggie. It's five minutes from your house, you love the food there, and you brought your laptop to do some work.
Your second question I discuss in detail here:
Black women will test your provider qualities much harder, because they're around a lot of low-money guys and because in general black men are a lot less likely to stick around as providers. You can either look harder for a real chill sister who isn't going to bust your balls over paying for stuff, or you can get good at taking women to nice/fun/cool places that do not require much or any money. And of course, good fundamentals and sharp dress. The better dressed you are, the less women feel the need to test you on provision (and the more comfortable they'll tend to be splitting the bill).
No, I'm from the B.I.G. school of thought:
I don't buy gifts or food, no. Only rarely (birthdays or holidays sometimes... maybe 30% of the time).
The question of "what do you provide them to have them stick around" is a little funny to me. My first reaction is "beats me, I always want to be single but these chicks never want to let me go." So I guess... what does the silverback gorilla provide to his females to get them to stay? Does he go and pick their food for them and bring them an offering of food? Does he bring them presents? No, right? You'd expect that from a subordinate lower rank male trying to sneak his way into the good graces of one of the females without the silverback catching him.
Women need to attach themselves to a male. They will attach themselves to less desirable males if those are the best options they have, but it's every woman's desire to attach herself to a silverback. If you are a top quality male (in her eyes), and you are available for a relationship to her, you are a rare find. You are not trying to get her to stay. She is trying to get you to stay. If she doesn't want to stay, you will replace her.
The males who are trying to get females to stay are the subordinate males, plying them with food and gifts. The juvenile males hoping to mate, etc. The females still prefer the silverback who doesn't give them anything other than silverback cock and the permission to remain in his sphere.
Now... if you want to keep a girl past the two year drop, that's another story. If you're not going to put her on the road to a settled relationship and/or children, at some point she will decide this relationship cannot give her what she wants and leave. You can do some joint self-expansion to delay that, or you can do the "long engagement" thing, where you wait as long as possible and then move in. Then wait as long as possible then agree to be engaged. Then wait as long as possible before you marry. Or have kids if you're doing the manosphere "marriage is a bad deal for men and I won't marry, but we can still shack up or whatever" thing.
But there is no getting around biological reality. A relationship that freezes halfway through its progression will be abandoned by the woman sooner or later.
You can either give her what she needs to continue the relationship (i.e., progress), or you can replace her.
Chase
Mindset Change
I've noticed I need a mindset change badly.
I'm always doubtful 100% of anything.
1. Like right now, I'm doing the coding stuff, and I'm not making any money from it and it's like going to school when you don't have to. You know what I mean? I never had to work or do school for free on my own choice. Work= I get paid to be there, School= I had to go there because I was forced to, College= You pay for it, so you go. I know I can pay to learn a skill, but right now money is not an option I can spend on any course
With learning a monetizable skill for free, I can do it anytime I want, but I'm not getting paid for it, nor am I guaranteed a job.
Now I know that that's the wrong mindset, but it's what I think while I work on my skills.
You know how I can change my mindset and not feel that way about learning a skill because it's affecting me from learning. I want a productive mindset with this.
2. On when you were dating when you didn't have a job or career prospects, your mindset was, "now i got free time to get girls and I can say I'm an artist" my mindset is, " she makes way more than I do, why would she want to date me at All? She's gonna look at me as a bum and not want to date me, I can't date while broke". But I feel you were so different in your situation because you had skills and I'm sure money saved and a car. I don't have shit lol, so imagine if you had nothing, I feel like a big baby lol, I didn't choose this lifestyle, it just happened out of nowhere.
With women my age they have careers, not jobs, so they getting a lot of money and are educated.
I just have doubts and feel crappy about myself.
How can I change my mindset about dating and my situation? I want to think like you did and think good thoughts no matter what.
3. I just don't like a lot of things about myself, I always dislike things about myself, like what I don't have and that affects me with dating and just growing as a man.
I really do feel bad about my age, I feel that I am not where I should be at all, I shouldn't be struggling with women or getting jobs, being broke, or not having a career, and i compare myself to people all of the time on what I wish I had.
I've been like this my whole life, it got so bad that I teachers noticed that I talk down about myself.
I'm also stressing because I can't purse dreams of being an NBA player, or rapper because they want young people.
How can I make it in entertainment being older? I want to be rich and fuck many girls, maybe be famous, maybe not, but at my age you can't just think, there's no time.
There's some jobs that j want to do, but people my age don't do that, they work grown up jobs and I have to to so I can live, I don't want to work stressful jobs.
I really want to just think happy productive thoughts instead of the negatives all of the time.
Negative Self Image
SZ-
Re: mindset, you'll have to soldier through it. Once you've built a skill once, then used it, and seen dividends from it, the flood gates unlock. You realize you can add new skills and reap the rewards of them once they're suitably cultivated.
But adding that first skill either happens incidentally (i.e., you pick something up somehow, and only later realize you've learned a valuable skill), as a passion project (i.e., you love something, and decide to do it for fun, only later to find out you now own a skill people will pay you money for), or as something you sacrifice time up front to learn and acquire.
I suggest you read a few books to help change your mindset. Talent is Overrated by Geoff Colvin (on skills) and How an Economy Grows and Why It Crashes by Peter Schiff (to get you thinking about specific skills/services as what people leverage to produce wealth) will be good starts.
The other thing you ought to do is just immerse yourself in the programming world as much as possible. Hang out on Hacker News, read forums where programmers talk about work, etc. The more exposure you have to computer programmers, the more you will realize these guys have abundant high money job offers, the more friends you will make in that circle, and the sooner you will figure out how to make money like them too.
It was a fun thing for me. "Let me see if I can get this chick to shag me even though I am unemployed and seemingly futureless!" I was not thinking long-term. My assumption was always "No chick is going to want to stick around with me in this condition", which led me to feel excited because I was finally going to get to be 100% single for the first time since I was 23. But instead, women would stick around anyway, and just complain to me about my financial situation rather than ditch me (and I'd have to do the stuff I talked about in the core tests article).
Rather than trying to get a girlfriend and hang onto her despite your poverty, how about trying to see how many cuties you can wrangle into bed, and who cares if they stick around for now or not?
If you make yourself into an attractive guy, sooner or later some of them will want to stick around anyway once you've bedded them. And if you haven't made yourself into an attractive guy, well, even if your financial situation improves dramatically it won't help much. Finances are only one chunk of her "whom should I date?" decision.
You can end all that. It's all right here:
But you have to actually do it. Not just read about it or think about it but do it. All the time. It has to be a big, important part of your life until it's repaired.
You can write a million comments and it won't make a difference. Ernest Hemingway wrote millions of words and killed himself in the end anyway. No amount of writing, talking, asking questions, etc., will fix it. No amount of nice things will fix it. Mystery got his triple digit notch count with plenty of hot blondes from nightclubs, had his TV show, groupies, and is still depressed and broke in the end. The Linkin Park guy killed himself ("in the end, it didn't even matter...!"); Robin Williams did. There is no THING someone can give you that will fix it. No point you reach where you check the success box off and say, "There. I got there. NOW I can be happy."
It is a problem in the mind itself. There are totally happy bums living on the beach in California. I've chatted with them. They have great happiness not owning anything, just living on the street. The happiest people in the world are Buddhist monks, who sit in silence all day in robes and meditate. And there are tons and tons of absolutely miserable men with loads of money, drugs, and women.
There is only one way to solve problems of the mind: inside the mind.
No amount of external gratification can solve internal tangles. Those tangles must be untangled internally.
Chase
Bad night
Hey Chase,
I had I very bad night out, want to know what the funny thing is???? I didn't get rejected one time, not one. I'm sitting here thinking avoiding rejection still hurts as much as it does getting rejected. It's a bad feeling, you don't want to get
Rejected, yet if you don't do anything you will feel terrible. The way I feel now, I feel that I got rejected the whole night. I'm very angry at my weakness.
I have dabbled back and forth with going out and it's been a while and I still haven't been able to push through 100%, I have had a few moments where I did it. There's so many times where I thought a girl wouldn't dance with me, but some other dude danced with her, it happened a lot tonight, then I thought to myself, " what if she doesn't dance with me after she danced with another dude? I would look so bad because I got rejected and he didn't." I read more articles than I can handle, I've tried to pump myself up with music, videos, and reading this article.
I tired to think in numbers, " I will talk to 4 girls tonight, I will dance with 4 girls tonight" " I tried to say that I won't go home until I do this" I called my self a pussy and still didn't do it, I asked my self what's the worse that can happen? Still nothing. This hurts a lot.
I'll tell you my exact thoughts dealing with this.
"If I get rejected by this girl it will ruin my whole night"
"Girls will laugh and see me and reject me too if I get rejected"
"She doesn't want to dance or talk to me"
" it will be a waste of time because I'll either get nice chit chat, or she will not be drawn to me"
" I'm not dressed well enough" I always feel this way no matter what I wear.
" I'm not popular enough, I'm not an entertainer, I'm not a celeb, I'm not cool enough, I don't have status or anything, I don't have a lot of money, or a cool job, even if I did have a cool job It still wouldn't be enough".
"No one wants to talk to me or dance with me"
" if I try she will reject me because that's what girls in clubs and bars do"
" I have nothing to talk about, so why talk? Why compliment when she will just ignore me"
"She's way to young, she's way too this, they wouldn't want me"
I feel it's so cool when dudes just grab girls with confidence, I wish I could do that and get the girls.
Also to make matters worse, I saw a girl who I had a terrible time with in the past and is the reason I found this site, I can't believe I saw her there, she's happy being a whore for money, and I'm here after reading this site for years and not anywhere near better than I was when I found this site. That slut has sex with men that have money, so it makes me feel bad about myself because I don't have a lot of money. They take care of her slut was, I isn't want to do that for her, but I want to have a lot of money, so she knows I'm the man and she's still a whore.
I don't think about her much, but seeing her on a night like this was too much, I felt so lame. I know she ain't work for it, but still women don't have to lift a finger and think that they made the money themselves. She made me feel worse about my night.
When i listen to music, i get this energy and confidence while listening to it, I feel like I can do anything, then it goes away.
How do I keep the motivation after getting pumped up? I always lose my motivation and drive after a few seconds.
If I need to fake it to make it, tell me, if I need to change my mindset by fighting bad thoughts, let me know if that works, if need to tell myself I'm the man every second before I try to talk to a girl please tell me, what more can I do instead of reading articles on approach anxiety? Should I do all of these things I said? Should I get drunk? ( I do all of this sober).
I just feel I have no value or worth, so girls won't like me, but I need to get this handled because it's important, if I can't do this, how can I do other forms of game . I feel like I can't get girls as a regular person, I need to be rich or famous in some way.
I need to get this handled bad, if there's a way I can think of myself highly or tell myself or trick myself that I will get these girls and go talk to them, let me know all you got because how I feel is terrible, it's terrible to not talk to any girls or even attempt to because you don't want to get rejected or feel low.
Please let me know what I have to do to fix this because it's been a LOOOOONG time.
Thank you so much.
Get a Wingman
An-
Get a wingman.
Get somebody to go with you. If you cannot do it on your own, find someone to help you.
The only thing crazier than trying something 50x and not being able to do it is trying it 50 more times without changing anything or finding someone to help you do it.
Get help. Could be a coach, could be a wingman. But find someone to go with you who will push you to approach so you can get into the habit of doing it.
If you can afford it, I suggest you sign up for a weekend workshop with a respectable coaching company (you can ask on the forum for recommendations; I'm not sure who's offering good workshops these days, off the top of my head).
Chase
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