How Her Childhood Influences Her Adult Relationship with You | Girls Chase

How Her Childhood Influences Her Adult Relationship with You

Chase Amante

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Master Teacher You, who was forty-three years younger than the Master, said, “Being a person who is lovingly obedient toward his parents and who models himself on his elders, and being at the same time someone who is bent on defying his superiors, that’s unlikely. Being a person who is not bent on defying his superiors, but who has a passion for stirring up confusion and disorder, that doesn’t happen, either.”
– The Analects of Confucius, 1:2, translated by David R. Schiller

We’ve talked on here about crazy girls before, and about narcissistic women and women with more extreme personality disorders.

Today I want to talk about where the seeds of many of the troublesome behaviors you’ll encounter in some women begin – namely, in the relationships they had with their mothers and fathers during childhood.

It’s not dwelt on too often in the dating advice community, but an individual’s family background and upbringing has tremendous follow-on effects that ripple down through the rest of her life, molding her relationships into something that mirrors the model she learned early on.

her childhood

And that means that when it comes to predicting how a woman will behave – and especially, what kind of girlfriend she’ll make – you must pay close attention to how she grew up.

Chase AmanteAbout the Author: Chase Amante

Chase woke up one day in 2004 tired of being alone. So, he set to work and read every book he could find, studied every teacher he could meet, and talked to every girl he could talk to to figure out dating. After four years, scads of lays, and many great girlfriends (plus plenty of failures along the way), he launched this website. He will teach you everything he knows about girls in one single program in his Mastery Package.

GET CHASE’S MASTERY PACKAGE

Comments

sal's picture

Great article Chase.
I think that life is like a Pendulum. Ups and down are a part of life. Be happy in the stable region and working hard in when rocky.
What do you think about that?

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Sal-

Yes, absolutely, life is ups and downs.

My only difference from your thoughts is work hard when rocky, and work harder when stable - there are fewer distractions then to pull you from where you aim to go.

Chase

Bolt's picture

Hey chase great insight on this subject, I've yet to see any advice like this on a dating platform. I have a question, I'm finishing up my second to last year at University and I have twin daughters. My question is how would you raise elite, high quality girls? Thanks to your site, if I ever have a son I know how to train him to become an elite man of purpose. However, the path to becoming an elite man and women seem entirely different. Also, I have a life goal, or purpose down the road to be able to work 100% remotely doing Web development/software engineering work. This would be so I can travel and live wherever I want while still making money. My question with this was that I was thinking I'd put that dream on hold until my girls are 18, about 15 years from now (I'm 22). I remember you stating somewhere on the boards that elite men in western history would marry a high quality woman, raise children, then divorce her when their children are old enough for a younger high quality woman. Is that plausible for me (marry my high quality ex girlfriend to raise elite daughters then divorce her when they go to college)? Also, I know you're not a parent but you seem to be insightful on all kinds of relationships. Would you ever do a post on raising elite children (both boys and girls)? Thanks chase.

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Bolt-

I’d make learning an instrument (probably piano) a priority, since learning a musical instrument teaches emotional control, as well as improves reading ability.

I’d keep them away from institutional education as long as possible, since there’s research showing students perform better the later they start formal education (assuming they’re coming in at a grade appropriate for their age – e.g., the 7-year-old goes straight into second grade, rather than the 7-year-old starts in kindergarten, which is associated with behavioral problems later in life).

If I could afford it, I’d homeschool them and educate them in the classics as well as whatever the state requires, hiring capable teachers for most subjects whom I’d vetted and was confident weren’t going to inculcate them with touchy-feely “follow your heart” “just be yourself” reasoning (do: listen to your gut; don’t: make life all about satisfying base emotions).

I’d then focus on teaching them several subjects myself whenever I had time in the day (unless I could find a competent teacher for this), including subjects like rhetoric, Socratic questioning, and educational parables (from Aesop, the Greek myths, the Bible, etc.) as well as, when older, moral systems, like the Bible, Plutarch’s Parallel Lives, and Confucius’s Analects. Eventually I’d also teach them a monetizable skill or two – probably programming, copywriting, or media buying, and as projects make them build businesses that actually turned profits.

And of course I’d teach them social skills, persuasion, and seduction – important for girls to learn this as well as boys, so that both a.) they can recognize when it’s being used on them, and b.) they are able to catch and retain the most elite-level man they can (wealthy, powerful, nevertheless good men fall for seductive women every bit as easily as beautiful, feminine, and good women fall for seductive men).

Those are my thoughts on raising daughters.

Oh, and no cell phones until they’re 17.

Chase

Freeedommm's picture

I have a very loving/caring mother. However, she exhibited a lot of the instability traits in her relationship with my dad. Does it matter how your mom acted with your dad or is it mostly how she behaved towards you?

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Freedom-

My observations have been that men (and women) will tend to seek out relationships that mirror the relationships they saw between their father and mother.

So, if you're aware of problems your mother and father had, I'd simply keep an eye on my own relationships and the kinds of women I go for, and see if I start picking up on similar patterns cropping up in them - and if so, and if that's undesirable, start looking for ways to adjust it.

Chase

NickAngel's picture

I really appreciate the replies I've been getting to my questions....always concise, insightful, and eloquent.

Anyhow, I've got two more Q's, and I apologize in advance for being somewhat long-winded:

1) How do I deep dive both girls and guys but still maintain control of the interaction/ operate from a position of power? I've been implementing deep dives in a lot of my conversations, and while I've noticed people really enjoy talking about themselves, I've gotten the impression that some people just use me as an outlet for their dreams, motivations, passions, etc., but don't return any real social value to me; kinda like their thought process is: "Oh cool, this guy will listen to stuff most people don't care about or take the time to ask about...nothing like a willing listener who I can open up to". However, when other people enter the interaction, suddenly the person I've been deep diving is only interested in joking around and looking cool. Just wondering what I can do differently to get reciprocation for the value I'm providing so I'm not that nice guy who buys everyone drinks (metaphorically) but people don't really respect. I've tried asking for compliance, but this seems to work a lot better on girls I cold approach and doesn't flow as smoothly in a social setting (work, party) or with guys (although I could be doing something incorrectly, don't know for sure).

2) What can I do right now to make money? I'm currently attending college and have a job as a waiter, but I'd love to do something that makes me more money as I work towards a long-term career. I have a passion and some talent for writing, and am willing to work hard/ teach myself. I am NOT whining to get a job here or anything, but I read one of your replies to a comment where you recommended codeacademy.com to make some money, so I was just wondering if you had a snippet of advice for someone who is interested in writing (or honestly any other job that pays handsomely to a willing learner and a dedicated worker who is still working on his degree). I realize this is a somewhat personalized and off-topic question, so no worries if you don't want to respond to this one. I don't want to cast the burden of finding a lucrative job on anyone else, but I'd appreciate any suggestions if you had the time.

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Nick-

See my reply to you here:

Deep Diving, Making Money

Chase

Pistol's picture

Chase, I respect the hell out of you, but I seriously disagree about completely ruling out women with hard childhoods. A hard childhood can be a lot of different things, but most of the highest caliber individuals I have met have been through tragedy and intense pain in their lives. You were depressed for 10 years and that had a massive impact on the man you have become. To immediately screen out a woman when you have found out she has suffered in her life will never be possible for me.

And this sentiment doesn't have the false bravado of the white knight mentality. I just really believe there are some incredible, loving women out there who have been through terrible suffering in their lives

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Pistol-

I wouldn't rule out hard childhoods where the woman had a great relationship with both parents - apologies if that was unclear (I used "rocky childhood" a lot here when what I really meant was "bad relationship with one or both parents" or "parents didn't respect each other / had major relationship problems").

It's one thing to have a hard childhood, but to know Mom and Dad have your back. It's another one to hear Dad shouting at Mom all the time, or calling you a dumb little moron, or Mom treating Dad like her personal gofer, etc.

The latter was what this article was about - if her parents didn't treat her well, or they didn't treat each other well, you'll usually find she's inherited that from them.

Chase

Matt C.'s picture

Fantastic writing here! I am studying to be a counselor and this article is the quintessential piece on evaluating relationships and breakups. I now understand why my previous relationship ended (we both came from chaos, yet I learned how to move towards order and she never did). Keep them coming. Great work.

jimbo23's picture

Great article Chase!

Just a quick question, what is the first step to achieving an abundance mentality, or 'Absolute abundance' which has been described on this site? I find that I am able to pick up women well enough though I become jealous when they tell me that they have been seeing other men.

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Jimbo-

If you're sleeping with new women regularly enough (once you reach one new girl every two or three months you should be at the baseline for standard abundance mentality), you're most of the way there.

Depending on where you're coming from mental model-wise, you may need to spend a little time talking to women intimately and really getting to know how women live and interact with men and date them and treat them to bring your model closer to reality than where it may have been before.

So, if you've slept with a lot of girls, but were kind of thinking maybe you were the only guy who did this, that'll still kick up jealous when you find out they're seeing other men - that's not necessarily a lack of abundance mentality so much as it is a feeling that women should see you and only you (more entitlement than abundance).

Once you've made peace with the fact that women will sometimes be sleeping with lots of other men, or even men concurrently with you, you'll generally be less bothered by this. However, you're still prone to your expectations being rattled - e.g., if you hook up with a girl you figure is probably sleeping with loads of guys and you hear she banged another dude, no worries, you figured she was doing that. But if you hook up with a girl you thought was conservative and you figured she was with you because she thought you were awesome, and you find out she banged another dude, it might feel like a bit of a bait-and-switch - I thought I was getting X, but actually I got Y.

Absolute abundance is a different beast from abundance; absolute abundance is "How do I get not just a girl whenever I want one, but a girl I'd be excited about to have as a girlfriend... whenever I want one?" The first step for that is typically to reach standard abundance mentality, and then figure out what the difference is between the women you regularly get and your ideal women, and what you need to do to bridge the gap so you're meeting more of the latter and successfully sleeping with and converting them (do you need to change where you meet women at? Do you need to change how you're approaching them? Do you need to change your escalation sequence - less multiple dates, more first date sex? e.g., you might realize you have no trouble with 'regular' girls because you shag them the day you meet them, or the first date, but the really 'special' girls you still try to take your time with and you usually use them - sometimes you speed things up and you start getting them. Tweaks like this).

Chase

Nathan P.'s picture

Hi Chase.
I must ask, what are your professional credentials? Don't get me wrong, you write well. However, if you had done you research you would have seen there are plenty of other options to help individuals who originate from broken homes, and statistically, that is more than 60% of Americans now. And what about the "individuals coming from intact families" where there are hush hush issues such as molestation or other trauma. So I guess everyone is basically a lost cause as "future hudband or future wife" as it is next to impossible for people to change? Maybe you should look into research and stats on other treatments, such as dialectical behavioral therapy, or maybe some Freud. Systems theory also, as one reacts to their environment and what is being put out by each partner. It could be possible the partner with the "normal childhood" never successfully completed Erikson's stages of development and are still seeking milk from their mother, which could in turn effect and weaken their relationship and automatically view the spouse from "the broken home" as the issue. I think that unless you are God, it is not your place to try and villianize or judge other people based on their childhood or genetics. Everyone has a choice. And that is not your place to make the prediction of what it will be.

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Nathan-

None, I don’t have any, nor do I put a whole lot of stock in the institutions that issue them (though they do have their uses). If you’re looking for professional credentials, you’ll do better on an ivy league university website than here. You may have stumbled out of academia and into the school of hard knocks.

If you reread this article, you’ll notice there’s no “always” here; it’s “typically”, “generally”, “usually”. Evaluating someone’s childhood is a start point, not the end point. Just because her parents are together and everything seems rosy doesn’t mean there wasn’t something else bad going on (nor do I suggest it’s impossible for someone to emerge unscathed from a troubled family background… just unlikely).

However, this whole “the past doesn’t matter!” B.S. people try to sling around when they don’t want people examining their pasts doesn’t fly so well when you’re looking at likelihoods and probabilities. If we’re relying on an indicator to be 100% every single time, we’re forbidden from making judgments or drawing conclusions. Sure, John Jones may have raped 47 little girls before, but that doesn’t mean he’ll do it again – after all, can you PROVE he will? – so lets put him in charge of the kindergarten. Sadly, we are all forced to make decisions based on imperfect information, and that requires stereotyping and generalizing. It may not be fair to those who buck their stereotypes or generalities, but it’s the strategy that provides maximum utility to its users, so it gets used.

As for other research and treatments, the verdict is out on talk therapy as far as I’m concerned. There’s some research supporting it, but there’s other research showing no improvement in patients who’ve been in it for 10+ years.

DBT is a modified form of CBT; it falls under the same umbrella as its parent. When I say “CBT works”, that includes any child therapies of it that’ve been supported by the research.

Your comment reads as if you’re someone with a troubled family background, offended that I suggested those with troubled family backgrounds are more likely to be drama-prone and easily offended, who then exaggerated my position and mischaracterized it as black-and-white / absolutist, then proceeded to attack that straw man. If your aim was to disprove my points above, a comment relying on these sorts of arguments does not help this cause.

Chase

Good man's picture

I'll be brief: your article and your website are absolutely amazing, Chase. I really feel mirrored in this text.

Congrats on that. You're a great example of success (in terms of selft-fulfillment from my perspective) and we hope that you don't go stray from this path.

Lawliet's picture

Hey Chase,

Great post! Hope everything's well with you and your travels bro. What country are you whipping up whirlwinds of romances now?

Re: article
You got the childhood and adult relationship right on the dot!
Great extension to why her past matters!

There's also more studies support to this too. In attachment theory, kids' early attachment show a direct relationship to how they interacted as adults.
A longitudinal study showed people as young as toddlers shared the same symptom of behaviours as they would in their adult relationships based on the 3 types of attachment outlined in the theory.

That being said, a woman who was an orphan after her parents died in an accident / or a woman neglected would likely show bad signs of attachment and act insecure in a relationship.
Amazing stuff and you got it! :)

Speaking of which, I've got a little better with deep diving and conversations with women. If they're open without walls, I can now dive pretty deep, make a silly comment there and lighten the tension, and then keep going. Pretty fun but also makes me wonder about what to do with bad stuff.

People, whether friends or female's past aren't always sunshine.
Sure, happy moments, relate to them. Dreams and future potentiality, relate to that.
A friend of mine were catching up and I dived into what his dream job is.

He told me he wanted to work with risk youth, because he had experienced some nasty past and was almost close to down the bad path. He was lucky to avoid that.
I was tempted to ask more, hey! it's personal stuff. And he most likely haven't told other friends. If I go down this road, I'll for sure know a lot more about my friend. I like knowing people more and see things from different perspectives, especially friends and he'll definitely feel I know him better too.

But I didn't. Because I remember reading about not going down bad past or negative feelings?
Hope I made the right call. So my question's twofold:

For both friends and women
1. What exactly should we do with these opportunities to learn more about a person's past, but they're negative experiences? I want to know more, but I don't want to be associated with bad past.

2. Idea of being nonjudgmental in your article and being warm allows others to open up to us and tell us things. However, when we;re asking them and hit a block, what do we do as we press on about their past to allow the person share more, but also honestly about their past with you? To show their true self.

Especially with women since their past matters.
I've had a few, who slip up and say something, but then stop themselves. I dive more and they resist. Some say "Why do you want to know?".

Lawliet

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Lawliet-

Nice comments on attachment theory. Seems you’ve done your homework!

Yes, when you hit on deep, dark pasts, that’s murky stuff.

I’d advise you usually not proceeding, for several reasons:

1.) Folks with more manipulative tendencies will use reveals like these as “bait” to suck you in more. They throw the bait out, you take it and ask about it, they beg off, oh, no, no, I wouldn’t want to burden you with that, I don’t want to drag that back up again, but you say no it’s fine, I want to get to know you better, and they say well, okay… and then they dredge up the whole horror story. The end result is you say wow, this person’s gone through some shit, and you feel bad for her (or him) and want to help her (or him) out, and that opens up a door where this person then begins to ask you for more or more and lets more of this dark side of her personality out because you’ve essentially invited her in.

2.) Even if she doesn’t have manipulative tendencies, getting her to vent a bunch of deep negative emotions will often make HER much more emotionally attached to YOU, which is either going to mean stupidly intense relationships (which sounds fun, probably, until you start wanting a little breathing room, or it’s break-up time… then it gets bad), or, if you haven’t slept together yet, can mean her deciding you’re far too valuable as an emotional outlet to risk messing that up with something as unnecessary as sex.

As you get more skilled, it’s possible to chat with people about their dark pasts in a way that lets them discuss it with you unemotionally (mostly down to your voice tone – interested but unemotional; more of an inquisitive “Oh, really? Yeah, tell me more, I’m listening” tone – and body language – not really maintaining eye contact, and doing something like walking along side-by-side with them, not sitting and facing them), but best to be careful with this when you’re still learning the ropes. Most people keep their dark pasts locked up in a Pandora’s box that’s better left closed than opened, except by someone who really knows what he’s doing.

Chase

Lawliet's picture

Hey bro,

One more thing about the article

Stability seeks stability; Discord seeks discord

There are studies on this too, proving your point, but a correlation study.
They surveyed couples and found that their EQ matched really well. Their behaviours too, level of rashness were identical.

I also remember you said, "Calm goes for moody; moody goes for calm"
What I interpreted from that is a moody girl wants to find a rock and a calm girl wants to find a moody guy so there's some stimulation to her life. Then, doesn't that contradict this?

Re: A general question
So we're out, meeting new girls...go on dates.
When we're not that close with a girl and we make mistakes with her in the process, generally, what should we do after?

Not talking about it = unreactive but also sweeps it under the rug and inconsiderate?
For example, Forum members told me to not bring it up (about my back then text selfie compliance push I did).
I understand why to not mention our mistake (especially if it's a big muck), to not provoke those bad emotions in a girl again. But not pointing out the mistake we do with girls doesn't this also ignore the problem for bigger problems later?

And what if she brings it up? From my example, I can't really say, "Well there's a precedent, operant conditioning, and compliance, I had no choice but to push"

Ciao!

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Lawliet-

Yes, I’ve seen those studies – people tend to partner with others similar to themselves.

The stability/discord metric, I’m talking about background and tendency to stabilize or destabilize one’s relationships.

The calm/moody metric, I’m talking about emotional dispositions. For instance, you may notice if you are an energetic guy, you tend to date women who are somewhat lower key, and if you find yourself dating similarly energetic women you get annoyed. Or, if you’re a low key guy, you’ll usually date more energetic women, because you enjoy their energy, while you find low key women quite boring. That’s what we talked about here: “The 4 Kinds of Girls and Which Ones YOU Should Go For.”

As for recognizing mistakes, if it’s a little incidental mistake in person, you can say, “Oops, didn’t mean to do that,” and then immediately course correct. If it’s a screw up over text (what yours sounds like), or something where you messed up in the past, best not to address it. That way, hopefully either she forgets it (in which case it’s not a big deal… you bringing it up again MAKES it one, though), or, more likely, she assumes that YOU forgot it (in which case, it wasn’t a big deal to YOU… which makes her assume it was just a one-off mistake and not worth worrying about).

If you otherwise act attractively, and there’s one weird blip in the middle but then you just ignore it and go right back to acting attractively, she’ll write it off as an anomaly rather than tear the courtship down because of it. However, if you start inflating it into a big deal and apologizing for it or explaining it, suddenly now she knows you’re worried about how she thinks about you and if you’ve offended her, and your value plunges fast while hers rises, relative to yours.

Chase

Anaya 's picture

I did exactly like you told about answering the question of not dating anyone...... Her exact response after saying that was ( what was it that I was so busy with in life that I had no time to date or have a girlfriend) I told her I was basically busy with finding out answers that bothered me about life. I told her it was more of philosophycal answer I was finding
What should I have replied according to you

Cheers
Anaya

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Anaya-

Sounds as good an answer as any to me!

Chase

ABCSX's picture

Chase, I've got a question about naturals. Basically, naturals are extremely social dudes and that is how they end up seeping with many new girls.
My question : Are there naturals who fit in the " Strong Silent Type " ? How can I be a sociable guy while being the mysterious silent guy? Have you seen any of your natural friends pull this style off ? It seems it's either one or the other and natural game tends more towards being more outgoing/talkative guy. How can I blend both?

Author
Chase Amante's picture

ABCSX-

Off the top of my head, no, no strong silent natural friends that I can think of. All my friends who get laid regularly off natural game are sociable.

The challenge with strong/silent is it's a very careful, calculating style of game, which means it takes longer to develop (could be strong/silent types are in more abundance among older naturals and I just haven't crossed paths with them at my age, for instance), and it's much more 'conscious'. Naturals operating semi-unconsciously just have an easier time with a more freewheeling style; it's harder to be prolific with a smooth style - you really need to train yourself at giving good compliments smoothly, at being able to use situationally relevant openers to glide into conversation with women around you, etc. The energetic natural uses these too, but his timing isn't as important because he can use energy to offset any timing mistakes he makes.

If you want a better look at how to run this style, check out this article:

How to Be Smooth with Girls Every Time

Chase

Loki's picture

Chase, could you make an article on becoming a villain? Guys like Loki from Thor. If we compare both Thor and Loki, they've both got solid fundamentals but girls ultimately fall for the villain.
What is it that those villains have that makes them so appealing?
Thanks man.

DanielD's picture

tldr; How do I get back a Cluster B girl after going from Apex Alpha to Sobbing Beta? (or, why DanielD thinks his story is unique but really isn't)
Now grab some popcorn, then proceed.

Hi Chase,

- Thank You: This is an amazing article. Reading this just after finding Drexel Scott's article on Cluster B Women lifted a huge dark cloud of self-blame I had over a recent incident. Also, I acknowledge that what I'm going to ask is not recommended and every other warning you would attach to your response.
The Story
Necessary Evil - I'm fairly seasoned with Cluster B FBs, as I need the type 50 Shades, mind-blowing sex only they provide. I maintain these chaotic relationships pretty well using strong boundaries, abundance, and periodic (amicable) periods of no contact.
Sex with the Damsel (Painted White) - I meet a Damsel in Distress (call her 'Jane') with a life story full of abusive boyfriends and a tragic childhood. I become the Apex Predator Jane's always fantasized about, giving her the Best Sex of both our lives. Simultaneously, we begin developing a very close, mutually-supportive friendship. This goes on for months. Despite all my Cluster B experience, I'd never known about 'The Damsel' and never catch a developing case of serious Oneitis. Abundance, aloofness, and maintaining dominance all begin to give way to my old White Knight tendencies to save her.
The Fall (Painted Black) - Jane has another FB (which is cool) who does something terrible and traumatic to her. She doesn't push me away, but my White Knight instincts kick in to hyperdrive(, failing to see the incredible irony). To my horrified bewilderment, Jane starts running back to him for more trauma. With your article, it now makes complete sense. I should have kept my cool, respected her decisions, and maintained strong boundaries, as she never lost attraction for me throughout this episode. No such luck.
Beta Meltdown - I start pushing and she start pulling, which quickly escalates. Responses from her become increasingly sporadic. For two weeks, I chase, text terrorist, sob, gift, love letter/together forever, and every other desperate sin in the book, including a 30 day NC epilogue capped with the strong 'goodbye for now' to whatever non-existent dignity I have left. Any trace of Alpha dominant sex-god she saw in me evaporates and I become the latest crazy ex-FB/BF chapter in her tragic life story.
This was finished about a month ago.

Today - Suicide Rescue Mission
You guessed it. I want to win her back. Before you bite my head off:
1) You see where this is going and are already shaking your head. Agreed. I run a startup so I'm usually pretty awesome about stoically rolling with the punches, which would have been great had I not let myself fall to Oneitis and get panicked from a stressful situation. I usually live for that stuff. By the same token, I get a shiver of excitement by fighting impossible odds and (very occasionally) winning a moonshot. Even if this is the stupidest idea you've heard this month (year?), at least I'll keep you updated as a case study.
2) With seven years of successful Cluster B FBs, this is the best kink sex of life by an order of magnitude. I'm willing to endure the emotional hit I'll take from a periodic attempt to beat the impossible odds, while also getting on with my life. If by some miracle it happens, great. A typical startup day (as you've probably experienced). I feeling fine if this never works, but still want to go for it.
3) She had to awkwardly call me a little while ago about some emergency logistics. I kept my cool and didn't try taking advantage of the situation. Nice to see I could finally control myself and leave her with a final, but meaningless, datapoint.
4) I have zero social media, but a moderately successful startup, so I believe that if she does ever feel a pang of curiosity, she'll google my latest press coverage, as she's admitted to doing in the past. Not a terrible demonstration of value.

Questions
1) Knowing her past relationships, I doubt she'll ever reach out on her own, so permanent soft NC (term?) is unlikely to work. When it comes to splitting, is it unheard of for someone painted black for a significant period of time without contact to get back to white or are you a permanent chapter in her life story of terrible 'relationships'?
2) If I go for it, should I stick to standard recovery procedure (4-8 month NC, reach out with "Hey, something reminded me of you" text, seduction and reverse psychology, rinse and repeat every few months until success or I lose interest)? Does this type of situation warrant any alterations? (I know she's addicted to the kind of sexual chemistry we had, so I think that's a powerful weapon if we have any meaningful conversation.)
3) Any other thoughts? (Don't mess with crazy; Move on from 'The One'; Always keep your cool)

Regardless of what happens, thank you again for the amazing article. It really lifts a weight off my shoulders.
Daniel

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Daniel-

Well, I won't sit and diagnose a specific rescue plan for the same reason I don't do that for guys chasing a girl they haven't slept with yet either, as discussed in this piece: "Can't Stop Thinking About Her? Here's Why You Need to Meet More Girls."

And especially not when you're in the midst of crazy up-down emotions set on you by a Cluster B chick, when what you really need is to be meeting more women... rather than giving into scarcity.

It's a bit like giving the guy who's addicted to heroin the phone number for another dealer rather than letting him just go through withdraw and get better.

However, if you're certain you're on this path and won't be deterred, I will point you toward these:

Chase

RobertNYCguy's picture

Hey Chase - another great article. Very insightful. One unrelated question - a few months back the web site said there was an article in the pipeline on how to fake being rich (or something to that effect). I was wondering if that article came out or whether its still in the pipeline. Thanks!

Rob

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Rob-

I think that was more "behaving as if you're rich" or "acting rich" rather than faking it... there is a difference! (I've known men who actively told women they were XYZ impressive profession that they in fact were not - that's what I'd consider "faking rich" :)

Anyway, it is in the article queue, but no assurances on when I (or another writer) might get to it.

To tide you over, I'd say:

  • Review the articles on the Law of Least Effort and sprezzatura
  • Have clothes tailor-made for you that fit exceptionally well and look pricey
  • Get comfortable talking about business, making money, and business strategy
  • Travel more and look toward recommending venues / people to others
  • Never seem time-stressed ("I have to do X by Y date!" "I mustn't be late!")

Plenty of others, but those are good starts for crafting an air of financial success about yourself.

Chase

E-Money's picture

You don't know how thankful I am to have come across this article. My ex had a HORRIBLE relationship with her father and I feel that it made our relationship unbearable. In addition to that, her mother remarried and bosses her new husband around, and because that's what my ex saw, she would try to get slick and do controlling things from time to time. This article helped me realize that I wasn't in the wrong and that I made the best decision for my romantic life. Much respect to you for speaking on this!!!

JJ's picture

I recognize and own up to my dysfunctional " daddy issues" my mother was kicked to the streets by her mom after being brutally battered and raped at 15, I think you know what happens next nine months later really sucked for both of us. Anyhow, I also dealt with abandonment I didn't see my mom for 3 years she left me with her dad when she met her present and unpleasant partner. I also underwent emotional/mental bashing for my body image I was cursed with to much androgen and a bit of hypo for a time which is luckily in the past, but her people were merciless about my predicament. Needless, to say we were estranged for a long time. Today everything is alright, I forgave even if I never received apologies lol because I can't live with the rage and heartache forever I had to be the better person. However, in actuality I have no desire to chain myself anytime soon not until 34 minimum I'm after all very independent and a freedom worshipper once again the Aquarian in me. Today I also embrace my athletic body type a little more it may not be perfect, but it still gets me what I seek plus, some men dig my type. You really get to the deep stuff heh :o cover every single aspect of a woman's reasoning behind her actions and lifestyle choices I feel like the subject line says :/

Author
Chase Amante's picture

JJ-

Yeah, that's a tough origin story. Sure it's made you hard as nails, however.

You know, the cool thing about the way we work is nothing's absolutely set in stone; it's more that some paths get worn deeper than others, but if you really want to walk a different path, then you work on cultivating that one, and let the other grow over.

Being conscious of any harmful relationship behaviors you picked up from early childhood experiences makes it easier for you to identify them and, if not necessarily stop them altogether, at least mollify them or head them off at the pass. And if the ghosts of the past start showing up to plague the present, you've always got CBT/DBT as a fairly straightforward path toward having someone who knows his stuff and can sit down and help you develop more productive relationship strategies.

Everyone's got his own demons and biases to fight; some are bigger and tougher ones than others. Most people assume they see the world perfectly clearly though and never reach the point where they begin to notice their own distortions (and we all have our own distortions).

Chase

Sub-Zero's picture

Hey Chase, I'm sorry if what I'm saying isn't coming out clear about keeping your girl home.

My girl doest go out at all, she only goes out to drink with Co workers at a sports bar, every few months. Maybe 3 times in a year, she doesn't club and doesn't like to club.

I know you said to not date girls that club and she doesn't club.

My questions about this are,

1. Just an example. Say if a one of her friends or family memebers wants to go out for their bday and invite my girl to the club, do I not let her go at all or is it ok?

If it's not OK for her to go to the club, how would I tell her I won't allow it?

2. What I am basically asking when it comes to girlfriends can they not go out at all to bars and clubs without you, even if they go for a special occasion once in the blue moon? Or do they have to stay home or go out with me all of the time?

I don't mind her going out to the bar with friends and I don't mind her going out because she just goes out with me.

I just want to know should I not allow her to ever go to a club or bar at all if I want a healthy relationship?

Or is it ok if she went to the club for a special occasion once in the blue moon?

If you recommend that my girl never go again, how can I communicate to her that it's OK for me to go out but not her?

This is all hypothetical in case I run into this in the future.

Thanks

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Sub-Zero-

Well, you’ve really got four options.

One is to just tell her outright “I don’t like when you go to nightclubs.” So long as she respects you and the relationship is good, she will listen to this. If the relationship begins to decay or hits a rough patch, she will know this is something she can use to “get back at you”, whether she uses it or not. And whether she uses it or not will largely depend on her personality + how rough that rough patch is.

The second is to use exposure and reconditioning to subtly guide her emotions on a thing. So, you could tell show her some news article on people who go out more often having less stable emotions, or something like that, sort of at random, and do things like this over time to gradually make it clear you think going out is bad for the relationship, and so long as she respects you and the relationship is good she will work to reduce how much she’s going out. For this one to work, you will have to curtail your own going out as well, since this one is more of a joint project.

The third is to kind of passively-aggressively “punish” her when she does stuff you don’t like by doing something similar. e.g., she goes out with the girls, so you decide to have a boys’ night out as well. I don’t advise this one, because it often leads to mutual suspicion, then an arms race, with each side racing to outdo the other in “punishment”, and eventually you create the thing you’re afraid of (straying/cheating, etc.).

The fourth is just to do nothing and observe, and make your decisions based on that. That’s the one I use, and what I recommend, though maybe it’s colored by my own life – I’m too busy to make reconditioning a woman a mission of much importance to me, and I’m out or away too much to be able to stay on top of her enough to ensure something like this sticks.

I know you want me to pass some kind of certain judgment on how often women can do nightlife or whether they can do it at all and still be “good” girlfriends, but I can’t. I don’t know you and what’s a “good” girlfriend to you, and I don’t know her and her personality traits, I don’t know what she does when she’s at the bar, I don’t know how she is if she gets drunk, I don’t know how solid your relationship is, I don’t know what her friends are like, I don’t know what her family is like. And you can write me a novel telling me as much as you know about these things, but I don’t trust text to convey what you know all that accurately, and after chatting with plenty of guys about this stuff in the past, then meeting the girlfriend in the flesh, or vice versa, I no longer trust other men’s opinions of their own girlfriends and their girlfriends’ habits, either (always either too trusting, or too paranoid).

If you want behavior modification, your best shot is to make her completely devoted to and dependent upon you, and totally crazy in love with you, and then just forbid her from going out to these places. Her following this rule is dependent on her remaining dependent upon and devoted to you, and satisfied with the relationship. I’m not going to teach you how to do that though because that kind of thing is too easily abused by most men, and you’re clearly coming from a place of fear/neediness, which puts you in prime position to misuse something like this too.

All I can say is you’ve got everything I can (or will) tell you on this; what you do from here on out is up to you.

Though, okay – here’s one bone I’ll throw you: if she’s going out a couple of times a year, she isn’t drinking, she isn’t flirting with guys while she’s out, her friends/family aren’t wild/casual/party girls, and you also don’t care, I don’t really think you have too much to worry about.

Chase

Jimbo's picture

Hmm, interesting. So, suppose you don't know much about her childhood, or she won't open up about it until later in the relation, are there other ways to spot such a drama-craving woman early on?

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