Don't Let a "Successful Identity" Stand in Your Way with Women | Girls Chase

Don't Let a "Successful Identity" Stand in Your Way with Women

Chase Amante

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big deal women
Are you such a success you now find yourself hesitant to approach? If you want to meet more women, you’ll have to shed that ‘Big Deal’ image.

Something happens to a lot of men once they reach a certain point with girls.

They realize they are, without question, pretty good.

When you hit this point, you look back and notice you’ve shagged a lot of girls. You’ve picked up girls in crazy situations and somehow pulled it off. You’ve had beautiful girlfriends who worshipped the earth you stood on. Maybe you cultivated a bit of notoriety on forums or just among your circle of friends as a guy skilled with babes.

And then you start to go out thinking you’re a big deal. “I’m a big deal,” you say. “Women are supposed to like me.”

You start to get self-conscious about approaching. You get a new flavor of approach anxiety. But it’s weird; it’s different from that earlier flavor. Whereas your old approach anxiety was a fear women might destroy your self-esteem by rejecting you, now it’s something else. Now you fear a woman may shatter your identity.

If you approach her, and she rejects you, can you really consider yourself Earth’s Biggest Ladies Man? Probably not, right?

So better not to approach.

In a way, this anxiety is worse than the earlier one. At least with the earlier one, you didn’t have much to lose. You sucked with girls, and you had to fix it, doggone it. With this new one though, you feel a need to preserve all those memories of success you have. This identity of being great. And when you don’t approach, you can just flood yourself with memories: “I’m not going to talk to that girl. It’s not worth the risk. Hey, remember that time I banged a girl who looked just like her? And how awesome that was? That was great...”

Plenty of guys get stuck here. Most never fully make it back.

Because once you’re a ‘Big Deal’ in your own head – a legend in your own mind – it gets harder and harder to do anything that might disabuse you of that notion.

Chase AmanteAbout the Author: Chase Amante

Chase woke up one day in 2004 tired of being alone. So, he set to work and read every book he could find, studied every teacher he could meet, and talked to every girl he could talk to to figure out dating. After four years, scads of lays, and many great girlfriends (plus plenty of failures along the way), he launched this website. He will teach you everything he knows about girls in one single program in his Mastery Package.

GET CHASE’S MASTERY PACKAGE

Comments

Damien1's picture

Thanks for the article Chase! I struggled with this recently after coming back from living 7 months in Latin America as a white guys. After coming back to my home country Germany it was much harder with girls than I remembered it and I at first took a big ego hit. I also always struggled when I met guys who are better than me. I got super jealous or tried hard to challenge them. I fixed this thinking with your other ego articles and this one is a very good addition. It's such a useless mindset cuz it just really frustrate when things don't work out. Since I got rid of it also my results went up. Just because I'm way more relaxed and less outcome dependent. Just a cool guy who likes talking to girls. ;)

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Nice job getting your groove back, Damien.

I've seen guys run into the "harder than I remembered on return" problem before after they've lived somewhere overseas it was much easier. Knew a guy who'd returned from Asia to the U.S. in the mid-2000s who would get all bitter and complain "The chicks here are all fat, yet they all act like they're 10s!"

Germany is up there with the U.S. (and Australia) as one of the tougher places for native-born men. Which is why it has so many guys in its population who study game. If you can get your results solid there, you will do well most other places in the world you travel, no two ways about it.

Chase

a-jay's picture

This article goes so well with your article about the girl-getting paradigms - especially if you take the paradigms into account where the guy sees himself as the prize, and his style is passive. It really is an ego thing. But it can also be very hard to look at yourself in a self-depricating light once you reach a bad-ass, successful level. You're used to humiliate yourself in the process of becoming successful in anything and hate that humiliation. I guess the next level, then, would be reaching bad-ass levels in new skills with a smile on your face because it's no big deal to learn another skill :)

Maybe you could do an article about making more fun of yourself or being more self-deprecating? Or would that look too much like this one?

Author
Chase Amante's picture

A-Jay-

I could do something on that.

I'd merely be repeating what many of history's great men have said: one keeps one's ego under control even as one's star rises by meditating on the impermanence of everything.

You're great today, but may be broken tomorrow. And in time, all you are will be swept away and forgotten.

That's not to be depressing (particularly if you believe in anything greater than this life). Just to keep it in perspective - no matter how great a man may be, everything fades, crumbles, and is forgotten, sooner or later.

Chase

A-jay's picture

Chase,

I've heard something strikingly similar many years ago by my former mentor, but forgot about it completely. I just remembered how it moved me back then. I was in a big shock, but also felt quite the relief... I didn't have to do anything for other people as I usually did. As long as I found peace with what I did because I wanted to do it, it didn't matter what others thought. I guess we really can't live for other people, whether they like us or not, if we want to live a fulfilling life.

This wasn't actually the kind of article I had in mind. However, I'd like to see how you handle a complex topic like this. I recall your related articles such as "You're not that special" and "Being happy with an unconventional life". But I think this one deserves its own kind.

Ajay

sivac71's picture

I feel the concept of this article applies to business, work and other areas of life.It is better not to stress just to maintaining a successful identity to have a better quality of life.

Cleary's picture

Hey, Chase.

Beautiful piece as always, yet I see some bias here, so I would like to see you clarify it for me.

You go far enough telling how terrible "big deal" image is. Yeah, your point is good. It applies to more fields than just dating, in businesses people go safe routes too, and they avoid building new skills, because it would shatter their "big deal" image. I get it.

However, what about situations where "I am a big deal" is good?

1. The extreme example could be North Korean leaders. Their whole power is based on the notion that these leaders are the only big deal in that country. For those leaders their "big dealism" is beneficial. Isn't it?

2. In dating world, we could have a guy who is completely confident in himself, at least as much as girls see, and they swoon for him, because he is congruent in stuff like:
She: You're not that smart.
He: I am
She: No, you didn't study X
He: I don't need to.
She: You need, you're not that intelligent.
He: I am
She: No...
He: I am (winks), let's grab some food.
...
and some girls melt for it.

3. In dating world, we have a girl who tells you that you're the best thing on Earth since sliced bread. Should you tell her "hey babe, stop it, I am just another dude"?. Of course, tonality is the key here, but should you see her putting you on a pedestal as a threat that she sees you more as a fantasy than a human, or what? Is it only bad when you get too delusional and lazy?

4. Man's decision to focus mainly on his self development means that the main big deal for him is "The Project Called My Life". Everything else is secondary. Isn't that the same big deal you talk about? Without such "big deal" it's easy to see others as more accomplished, more important and don't improve yourself, while letting them take the best things from life, you get only scraps.

That being said, what about "big dealism" in a healthy way and in the right situations? Or should men leave it altogether?

Darius Belejevas's picture

Regarding point 2. If the guy in question has a case of "big deal-ism" that conversation would go more along the lines of:

She: You're not that smart.
He: I am
She: No, you didn't study X
He: I didn't need to. I studied at Y, which experts say is just as good!
She: It's not the same, you're not that intelligent.
He: I am!!! I read 7 books a week and do advanced calculus every night before bed!!
She: Yeah... okay... I need to go now to feed my cat or whatever.
He: Wait, didn't you say you don't have any pets?..

This chest pumping ego obsession makes us defensive when the image think we are conveying is challenged, which is the opposite of confidence. To a degree this point applies to all the situations you noted.

A good read if you're interested in the topic is "Ego Is The Enemy" By Ryan Holiday, I often revisit that book when I notice that I'm unconsciously starting to make myself bigger in my head than I really am.

Btw, awesome topic and article, Chase!

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Well put, Darius.

Hey, great to see you on here, man!

-C

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Cleary-

Well, let's dig into your examples.

In the Korean leaders' cases, I suspect the big risk of big deal thinking is not psyching themselves out, but making hubristic moves. If you're Kim Jong Un, and you go around thinking, "Everything I do is 'win'. I'm the man, I'm the greatest, and everybody loves me," you're going to make mistakes. Mistakes like:

  • "Eh, I'm sure that official who's been saying bad things about me would never assassinate me."

  • "We don't need PA systems inside everyone's home broadcasting state propaganda all day. The people love me enough, because I am a Big Deal. We can turn the propaganda off."

  • "I'm done posturing - I can attack XYZ country because everyone knows if they come after me I'll nuke Seoul and Tokyo to oblivion. So I'm just going to do it. Time to seize the de-militarized zone."

+1 to Darius on "confidence vs. big deal." Wrote my own response to that in this comment before seeing Darius's... but I just deleted it after reading his comment. No need to rehash. The big deal guy gets insulted and offended if you question his intellect. The guy who's confident thinks well of himself, but isn't attached to an identity of greatness.

With your #3 example, you should reply as you would to any compliment: "Thanks."

In #4, he's going to run into the primarily problem of the article: as soon as you are a 'big deal', improvement stops. "I've made it; I'm a big deal. I'm the biggest deal there is," is not a recipe for improvement. Why should you improve, when you're the biggest deal around? The other guys aren't a threat to you. They're Small Deals. Or heck, even if there are a few other guys who are Big Deals, well, you're going to avoid comparing yourself to them, at the risk you discover one of them is a Bigger Deal than you are. So you'll just retreat into Big Dealism and enjoy the ego strokes until they stop coming.

I'm not averse to considering the big deal mentality as useful in some way. I tend to think anything people do, think, or feel has some function. But at this point, every scenario I examine with the big deal identity turns out to work better without than with it.

Maybe it's a better option than a lower mentality, and serves as a stepping stone to a higher one. Sort of like how envy is always an ugly emotion, but often serves as a transition from apathy to action.

Chase

nolimits's picture

Terrific article.
Funny enough I was just thinking about mindsets sometime back.
I had gotten stuck in a 3 months dry spell. I was also in a relationship so I thought that must have been the reason: that the relationship was taking most of my energy and therefore I could not close anymore.

As true as that might have been, I was also stuck in approaching: i would walk for sometime an hour during my street game and never do an approach.

However, the way I got out of it was when I read the ''warm up approach post'' and decided that the problem was in my mind, and not in my skills.

It took a bit (5 outings more or less) but now I'm figuring that all out.

It's just an approach. I'm no big deal, just a cool guy who likes to talk to women.

Also , for those who , like me sometime, have a tendency to idealize others, I think it's crucial to remind yourself that there are no big deals in the world. Like, obama? cool guy who's good at persuasion and politics ( ok, quite good ;) )

But one question can't help but popping up in my mind.

If this (no big deal just a cool guy who likes X) is the best self identity to have for maximum achievement in life, how to explain guys like Michael Jordan, Donald Trump, Cristiano Ronaldo and Kanye West ?
Are they limiting themselves by constantly telling the world they are big deals?

Or are they faking and what they actually think is: '' okay, I just said that I am the best at what i do , but that's not true. I'm cool, by any means, I am a very cool guy, but I am no big deal.''

How to explain the West, Trump, Ronaldo and Jordan phenomenon?

Plus, I'd love more articles on how to master self identity for maximum social power and personal achievements.

Thanks Man,

Keep on enchanting

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Nolimits-

Yes, warm-ups are fantastic. I'm glad to see you get back in the swing of things.

De-idealizing people is very good too. Starts with reminders that others are not ideal, but later turns to actual awareness of this - you can still appreciate them, you just recognize now that they're human and flawed and not so dissimilar from you or anyone else.

As for guys who use the 'big deal promotion' strategy... Well. It's impossible to know what's in someone else's head. So I couldn't tell you whether a guy who uses this strategy believes it, or if he just leans on it because he knows it generates press (often negative press... but no such thing as bad publicity).

You look at guys like Donald Trump and Kanye West, and it's hard to like them as people, regardless how you feel about their work. I've long disliked Trump as a personality, even as I admired his business deals and business sense, and later his persuasiveness and dark horse presidential campaign. Likewise, I very much dislike Kanye West as a person, but like some of his music (well, I like his beats. I still don't like his flow... or lack thereof. As far as I'm concerned he's a producer who spends too much time in front of the mic. Possibly because he thinks he's a big deal!).

It might be possible that the big deal identity can help guys compete hard if they get into a habit of taking action. At that point, the insecurity of not wanting to be exposed as 'not a big deal' takes over and pushes them to outsize achievement. So their lives transform into a perpetual struggle to prove themselves, to validate this big deal identity, which leads to greater and greater external success.

I'm not sure it's an ideal way to live (and I say this as a fairly ambitious guy myself). But it may in fact have its perks.

Plus, I'd love more articles on how to master self identity for maximum social power and personal achievements.

Noted. Well, I will see what I can cook up...

Chase

Anonym's picture

Hi Chase ,

It is a great topic to write about the identity change. Do you think what you wrote about the chnage of „successful“ identity applies as well for the „unsuccessful“ one? During my life I internalized or developed some identities that make me less efficient. People have always told me I was smart (or had rich knowledge), or nice – rather than calling me hard working, strong, manly, bad boy etc. So I have always seen myself this way and liked those Identities. But later I read your article about difference between „being smart“ and between „being hard working“ and the endless discussions about why nice guys finish last and saw the dark side of it. But while I know about it, I still see myself this way.

What I want to ask is about changing the other identities. Being unsuccessful with girls I developed identities like „I am the one women are not interested in“ and „the one in whose life things like sex and romantic relationships do not happen“ and „the one who is bad with girls“ and „I am not good enough to have girls I want“. Since these beliefs have deep roots, I have never been desperate about not having a girl, because it was unattainable goal. But together with other maladaptive beliefs like feeling ashamed for expressing my sexuality, f.e. like it is bad if she knows I am interested in her, it is difficult to take action and approach a girl. It feels weird and awkward, like it is not „me“ … Generally core beliefs are difficult to change and I tend to be kind of stubborn and resistant to potential changes of my beliefs.Do you think your 5 steps method might be applicable as well for this kind of inefficient identities? For example, identity “I’m a cool guy who likes to talk to girls” is strange in this situation since you know you are not that cool (especially around women) and sometimes you do not really enjoy talking to girls, if you feel anxious, awkward, too shy, do not know what to say etc.

Thank you

Anonym

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Anonym-

I'll see if I can do a post on it.

But yes, you can overcome these. I certainly did. Many of the writers here did.

In my case, I had unsuccessful identities throughout my late teens and early twenties like "There is something other guys have that women want. And whatever it is, I do not have it" and "No matter what I do, I cannot get a girl" and "I'll always be that guy left in the dust by everyone else with a 10-year head start on socializing over him."

You can use something similar to the five-step process here. You need to identify these identities as unhelpful. That's important. However, I don't suggest you spend time trying to give yourself a new identity. At this point, your identity as unsuccessful is too strong. You can't just laugh it off as you can with a big deal identity. Instead, you just have to tell yourself, "Well, I suck with women, but I'm never going to get any better until I get enough exposure to them. Which means talking to them. Which means doing a lot of stuff that is uncomfortable until it starts to become more natural to me."

If you've ever done anything you started out awful at, then improved, like lifting weights or writing or some sport or some art or whatever, you can keep this in mind and remind yourself it's just like that: you sucked and it felt totally awkward and "not you" at the beginning, but after you kept at it past a certain point it became comfortable, then natural, then second nature. And eventually it just became part of who you are - and at that point, your identity had changed, and you never had to change it consciously.

These days, I can remember what it felt like to hold these mindsets, but... it's alien. They're thoughts from a different brain.

Anyway, I will add a more in-depth article to beating unsuccessful identities to the queue.

Chase

Robinhood's picture

Great article. I am going through this big deal-ism and trying to rectify this mentality. Can u do an article on what leads to this? That might lead to more self-awareness and better handling of this. Maybe prevent or minimize the chances of this happening altogether. Does this mentality happens with girls too? Any examples? Thank you.

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