Girls, Social Proof, Herding, and Copycat Hookups | Girls Chase

Girls, Social Proof, Herding, and Copycat Hookups

Chase Amante

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Chase Amante's picture

copycat hookups
Most girls are inveterate copycats… Especially when it comes to when, where, and whom to hook up with. But you can leverage this herding behavior to your advantage.

Comments

mrre's picture

Haha I was picturing a puppetmaster cackling "Dance little puppets, DANCE!" throughout the article lol

Not complaining though... Great stuff as always!

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Although yeah... it's not just women...

Chase

Davido's picture

Chase is one of my brilliant writers who captures real life scenario in all it's entirety.
I am a black guy in Sweden who moved here in 2010 and dating wasn't that very difficult back then, but due to the refugee crisis in 2015 things changed.
When we moved here 2010, Swedish women were still excited about blacks and all that, later the excitement shifted to Arabs, and now their latest excitement are the current Afghan refugees, how the women here sexually shift the goal post would amaze you.
Talking about copy--catting, the black girls who are far below average looks have started copy-catting the flaking Swedish women, these are black girls that back home in Africa don't stand a chance with guys like me, they have also become exactly what you described in this article.

It is true women are more wary of the social consequences of hooking up with a guy women like her don't hook up with in a particular venue, city, or country which makes seduction a daunting task. Two things women have going for them are beauty and social integrity, anything that would destroy these things are frowned upon. Sometimes in a club here there are just 2 black guys, and most women would rather go home alone than pick a kind of a guy she doesn't see other women like her hooking up with for fear of social stigmatization.

You wrote about changing venues and going to places where women meet men like you, hahaha is this not some sort of race baiting knowing fully well that in a predominantly white nation chances of finding such places are next to zero, also how can one use your tactics of going to a place like street game where women have no reference point at all to base their selective dating judgement on especially considering I live in a country where daygame and dating is forbidden as any form of social meet ups. Yes I said it daygame is forbidden because your logic of asking an average Swedish living in the city if she has been cold approached before would come out with 2/100 %. You can take your cameras here to find out yourself and ask 200 random Swedish women if they have been cold approached before and what's their take on been randomly stopped by a total stranger.

You are so right about the hook up culture in a house party, I have been attending many house parties now and the rate they fuck in the toilet before you turn your head around is so alarming, so guys reading this should try more of house parties than clubs.

Jimbo's picture

Are you saying Swedish women are hooking up with Afghan guys right now wtf?

SZ's picture

You think black guys can clean up at house clubs?

I never been to one or seen one, I have no idea what's a house club or not, but if it's easier to get some, I'll go.

I've been thinking about fuckin women a lot lately, I might want to go to 200 plus now, I know that might sound crazy, but I just want to fuck so many girls.

Thing is I really don't know what I can do to even accomplish this, I have no idea what I can work on that hasn't worked for me before, nor do I know how much work I should put in so it doesn't affect my other goals in life.

I wonder how to achieve this goal, how much do I go out to do this, how do I lessen the margin of error now than from before, I need to change something, but don't know what? I'm wondering if this is still possible at my age, damn so many women to fuck.

Author
Chase Amante's picture

SZ-

Sure can. I've seen every imaginable kind of guy do well at such places.

Only catch: you must conform to what works well there.

Chase

Kevin0123's picture

... Chase What if I don't fit in anywhere ? I have always been kind of an outsider, not necessarily in a bad way, it's just I've never had a niche, and I can't seem to find a niche I click with no matter what I do or where I go

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Kevin-

I can relate. However, it's not about finding a niche that fits you perfectly. It is about finding a niche that appeals to you, then conforming yourself to what works within that niche.

e.g., you may find you like dive bars a lot. So, you start spending time in them. And as you spend more time there, meet more women there, and befriend more guys there, you begin to adjust yourself to what works best in dive bars.

You might also discover you like meeting girls in salsa class. So at the same time, you go to more salsa classes, learn to dance, learn the best ways to flirt there, and learn how to fit into that niche as well.

Eventually you'll end up with various niches you've adapted yourself to... possibly quite different niches. The salsa niche and the dive bar niche are very different places. Often you may not even discuss one niche with the other niche. You might go years without your dive bar buddy knowing you do salsa, until one night you meet an out-of-place girl in the dive bar who mentions she salsas, and you start a conversation about it. After you take her number and she leaves, your buddy says, "You dance salsa? I did not know that...!"

If we had to find niches that fit us perfectly as-is, most of us would probably never fit in anywhere.

Instead, the key is finding niches we decide we'd like to adopt... then adapting ourselves to better fit those niches - at least for the times we're in them.

Chase

Alessandro's picture

Dear Chase, I'm Alessandro from Italy.

I was born in 1983, like you, and I'm a doctor. What I really like about you is the fact that you are precise in your writing: it is evident that you re-read the things that you write, and, nowadays, it's rare.
I also agree with many of your ideas.
Probably the only thing that I don't appreciate in PUA world is the anxiety it puts in the interactions: kiss her immediately, or else you become a friend, so on and so forth...

In my experience I've noticed two relevant elements:
1) If you have real value, it is almost impossible for her not to notice it. If you have value and are attractive, you can't be put in the friend zone: maybe they sense that you are unavailable, but they still don't see you as an unattractive male (while PUA matherial scares guys with this friend-zone problem - you don't, luckily).
2) Women are not stupid: they sense if you are a loser with some body-language tactics and routines or if you are a Real Man, someone who has great goals in life and doesn't spend years just to be a woman pleaser.

This is the reason why I would appreciate less focus on game and more focus on being a real man: I've read an article of yours about status, and I don't agree very much: many women give me signals of interests as soon as I tell them that I am a doctor, and that I have many passions. As you say, listening is way better than talking about themselves, but I've discovered that communicating passion in what you do can be very attractive.

Also, I've closed many escalation windows with pretty women whom I didn't like very much, and they continued pursuing me.

I'm writing this just to say that it's very important to encourage guys in the process of understanding that: 1) It's dangerous to believe in rigid rules; 2) It's more benefical to focus on dreams and objectives: when you persue objectives, you become a real man; and if you become a real man, your body language and your behaviours become good without you needing to improve them so much.

Grazie.

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Alessandro-

Yes, definitely. Rules can increase anxiety. Best to think of constraints on moving faster, getting the kiss, etc., as training guidelines... gets you in the right headspace with these. Once you're comfortable enough going for the close, you can drop the rules and move at your own pace. At that point, you no longer have to worry about chickening out or missing the window. Get your intuitions trained up, and after that you're free.

I'll try to do more stuff on "being a real man." A lot of this is mindset-based, however. Mindsets are harder to make stick. There is a long running debate in the PUA community on "inner game vs. outer game." Some guys prefer one, some the other. I find it's helpful to tell guys inner game stuff and hopefully lead them to epiphanies. Yet without tactics, most guys can't use it.

Some guys can - if you're a doctor, you're probably good at study, at learning from mentors, at taking instruction and going right out and applying it. A lot of guys are not so good at this though. They need simple, actionable things they can do, and struggle if you only give them more abstract, cerebral lessons. e.g., you may give them all the great mindsets, and they'll agree these are great. Then they'll go right out, see a cute girl, fall back on their old behavior patterns, then fall into old ways of thinking too.

The ideal, of course, would be perfect inner game that never wavers. Once you reach this point, you can forget game/fundamentals - they're automatic.

For the most part, I focus in my stuff on training up the guys it isn't automatic for yet. Since by and large the guys it is automatic for don't need a site like this ;) But that is where we want to get them to - unthinking, instinctual, automatic good. I do try to mix in more mindset stuff for the more advanced guys... and perhaps haven't done as much of that lately as I historically have. I'll see if I can correct that.

As for rigid rules, yes. I fight these more than most folks. Unfortunately, hard to prevent some chunk of the readership from taking what you write as dogma. Even if you tell them repeatedly not to :/ It is a fight sadly without end.

Chase

Alessandro's picture

Grazie for your long reply, Chase: I've appreciated it very much. I like reading your articles: they, together, form a Seduction Bible.

When you talk about inner game, things like affirmations, meditation and so on come to my mind. I don't believe it would be necessary to learn more inner game, as long as inner game means complex mind-growth processes: I just think that getting girls is also linked to avoiding focusing too much on them, and that, if guys decide to focus more on their ambitions and less on girls, probably they increase their success with women too.

You teach people that, as seduction is concerned, it is better to get women invest than to invest on them. It's perfectly right! That's the reason why guys shouldn't spend hours and hours thinking about getting girls, but doing things for themselves (for example: let's see if I can become a good guitarist, or... I want to be an amazing writer and I am ready to put all the necessary effort). Not a complex inner game study: just persuing objectives.

I've learned these things at my expense: when I used to focus too much on PUA matherial, I had the tendency to feel guilty everytime i couldn't get a girl. But that's not always our fault: I have met many women, and understood that a lot of seduction failures depend on women's neurosis. If a girl has a borderline personality trait, you are not a super PUA when you sleep with them, and not a nerd if she breaks up with you.

It's difficult to find the balance: studying seduction and alpha traits is very useful; thinking to need years and years of approaches just to start becoming a man is counterproductive. In my city there are many men who are good with girls and have never read PUA matherial. Are they lucky phenomena? No: just normal people living their life with some ambitions.

I have a friend who is less shy than me: he teases girls a lot and flirts with them a lot. But almost 95% of women who meet us are attracted by me: my style and aspect help me, but the problem is that he doesn't have a job and doesn't have interests and passions: he just travels to get laid, and women don't appreciate this; they want to become part of a new universe, don't want to be the universe of some lazy men.

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Alessandro-

Yes, if you are Italian, you should not be focused on techniques!

There are men from certain regions of the world who can mostly or totally forego learning tactics:

  • Southern Europe (Spain, Italy, Greece)
  • Eastern Europe
  • Latin America

Southern European men, in particular, are probably the most naturally romantically talented men on Earth. You may not realize it, growing up in your society, but do enough travel and you'll realize you're already better at getting laid than the men in almost any other country on Earth.

Men from Africa, Southeast Asia, and the Middle East seem to be somewhat in the middle. They don't need tactics as much as some other groups, but they still seem to like and benefit from studying it.

Then you get to groups like North Americans, Western Europeans, Northern Europeans, Indians, and East Asians. While these populations produce some naturals (usually especially ballsy guys who got started on girls at an early age), their societies are designed around suppressing natural instinct and promoting androgyny. So you end up with large contingents of men where you can go up and tell them, "Just be yourself. Just go talk to girls. Don't think about it and let it happen naturally," and all they can do is freeze up or fumble out a couple of sentences to a girl and slink away, or they go on dates but no matter what they do women won't kiss them or go home with them. These guys have heard all the platitudes, but it doesn't help, because they've had instinct beaten out of them from a young age.

There's an article here, where I discussed the disconnect when talking about this stuff in Romania. Not sure if you've been there... Romanians are essentially Italian offshoots. An Italian will be able to read their restaurant menus and understand their spoken language. Very similar in culture. The women there on the video course we shot had a lot of cognitive dissonance at first understanding why any man would need to learn seduction tactics. After all, men are so naturally aggressive... in Romania:

My recommendation to you as an Italian man is to ignore most tactical stuff and focus on running your own natural style. In my experience, most Italian men have little patience for tactics, and most don't really need them. As an Italian guy, you usually really can just be yourself (advice that often works out awful for American and Western European guys) and have it work great.

Also, saw your post on another thread about energy of the girl/environment vs. your own energy. Yes; you need to match the speed and energy of the girl you approach, and come in slightly faster and above. Too much faster or too much above her energy and you'll seem crazy to her. Slower or below her energy, and you're a downer, depressing, or she doesn't think you will really do anything and are ignoring her signals. If you're a lower energy guy (as I am), I suggest looking for more relaxed venues, like house music clubs or chill lounges. Though you can also stay lower energy in more energetic venues, focus on picking up girls in quieter parts of those venues, and just concentrate on escalating faster (which is straightforward to do even at lower energy levels; you just propose moves, ask for investment, touch her, etc., sooner).

Chase

Alessandro's picture

Alessandro/doctor from Italy here.

Grazie for your long reply and your interesting perspectives, Chase.

I think that saying all this about we Italian men is very mature and wise from a person, like you, who dedicates much time to theoretical seduction. I appreciate it very much. Even though I agree with you (way better for me to develop my own style with practice), I am still someone who likes reading about this interesting topic, because I adore psychology.

If I could give just one single suggestion to guys who read much theory about seduction, I would say: learn and forget; in other terms, don't condemn yourselves for everything that goes wrong; I have attracted a very beautiful blond girl even though my interactions with her were long FB conversations where she used to qualify me very much (I think that, when a woman qualifies a man, he doesn't have to always avoid to reply; she qualifies because she is interested, not necessarily with bad intentions). In synthesis: if you are alpha, you can get the girl even if you, sometimes, happen to have behaviors that would be considered beta. And if she doesn't want you, maybe it's has nothing to do with you.

It seems you know the world very well!
I am from Napoli. You should visit: it's one of the most charismatic cities in Italy. Also, I think that Neapolitan men are better seducers than men from northern Italy.

In Italy we have a problem: because there are many aggressive men, bitch shields are very high, and a HB6 (sorry for this stupid rating) has 8-10 super-alpha guys around. The result is that, for an attractive Italian man, it's difficult to enjoy very beautiful girls. I know many alpha friends who have slept with only one girl even though they have amazing body language, amazing dressing style, great ambition, great teasing skills and leadership qualities.
As soon as they meet women from other countries, they experiment giant success.

Personally, I adore stranger girls: with them, everything seems flirtier (probably also because they were in a holiday mindset when I met them). I kissed a wonderful blond Finnish girl after just one hour together (while, as Italian PUA say, you usually need 3 dates to have sex with an Italian girl). Other aspect: Italian people are less open to meet persons who they don't know, and they judge other individuals mainly by their social context.

I want to end this post with this final point:
I appreciate persons like you, who had the courage to become PUA. I can cold-approach only when I am having holidays in other cities, maybe by the sea (it seems more natural): when I walk in my everyday streets, cold-approaching seems to me a strange thing to do (nobody does this, and I am worried to be seen as a strange dude). How did you manage all this? How did you succeed at starting something that was so unusual without feeling alone and strange? In Italy PUA world is not very well known, and when I tell to my friends that I want to approach a girl in a supermarket, they say: ''Are you crazy?''.

Ciao. Thank you again.

Hasan's picture

I was wondering if i can use social proof to my advantage if i let the girl add me on instagram on the spot and let her see all the hot chicks i go out with or does it seem too try hard? Btw your articles are mind blowing and whats more mindblowing about them is that they seem to work like magic when i implement them. So grateful to have found your site. Cheers!

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Hasan-

Yes, BUT.

If you're going to invest in social media, you need/want to be in the top 1% of men on the medium. Probably top 0.05%. Discussion on that here:

Why to NOT Meet Girls on Facebook

It's not usually worth the effort, in my opinion. You can use your time much more efficiently to meet equally (or more) attractive women in real life, at a much higher quantity, than what social media is likely to get you.

However, if you put the work in, have the style, and have that certain photogenic charm or appeal few men do, it is certainly possible to turn yourself into a Dan Blizerian. Expect it to take some time to cultivate a profile that has the kind of effect you desire, though; it is not an "easy" path.

Chase

Dale's picture

For me, the biggest need I had was to learn when I had women hooked. My second date is now my most painful moment to remember. She took me back to her dorm room and told me her roommate spent the nights in the grad dorm with her BF. I did not get a kiss (or a second date).

Davido's picture

Chase I don't think it's because Mediterranean men I've got natural game, the appeal from my experience living in a dorm apartment with Spanish, Turkish and Italian guys is the skin.
Swedish women, Polish women etc are generally very pale with freckles and when I hang out with them they only talk about the olive brown skin of Mediterranean men, so men from that side with an average game and have balls to talk to girls here in the club would clean up.

I still see many of these Mediterranean men who have zero club games, who act socially reserved and still go home alone. It's not about game because for a fact as someone living in Northern Europe, the women specifically travel to those places to meet men who don't look so pale and who have dark hair and eyes and not the usual Scandinavian thin light hair, infact my Spanish flat mate looks like my uncles mixed son whose father is black and mother is Czech. So the allure is skin color and not game. The Italian doctor himself wrote it's very awkward for them to cold approach just like it is in Scandinavia. Go to any polish forum and you see the women writing about the skin, hair and eyes of Mediterranean men, and little on game or their balls.

I have many friends across the world who are ripped as fuck and could beat up a club bouncer, but when it comes to approaching women they start shaking like a jelly fish looking for hidden quiet streets and spots to approach women so they don't come across as creepy.

I am so happy I started daygame when I was 16 and also my greatest joy is I started driving at 19 and these two things helped me to move fast when I moved to Sweden. Meaning I am able to get a driving license here fast and drive myself to nearby clubs and spit my game with no hassles. As for the Italian doctor I think no matter how natural you are, I would advice everyone to read the contents from Chase, it doesn't matter the level you are in seduction. I read the argument all the time telling people to focus on career and make money and women would flock to you, that might be a good thing but it's not the best advice.

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