Does Dating Younger Women Make an Older Man "Dirty"? | Girls Chase

Does Dating Younger Women Make an Older Man "Dirty"?

Chase Amante

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Chase Amante's picture

younger womenThis is Part I of a 2-part series on dating younger women. In Part I, we'll be focused on social factors that have changed and why there's so much pushback against older men dating younger women in the West. Part II will be our "how-to" - that is, how to date younger women as an older (or younger) man.


There's something of a stigma in the West right now against older men and younger women (while younger men and older women is often considered right as rain - and maybe even ideal!)... younger woman / older man couplings, you'll frequently be told, are a Bad Thing.

But travel the rest of the world, and this stigma is largely nonexistent.

Throughout history, it's been common for older men to select younger women as their brides, across cultures, nearly universally.

It would appear we live in a strange and rather unusual period in history, where sexual norms have been turned upside down and positioned on their heads.

But look a little closer, and you'll see that even in the West - even in the United States, bastion of feminist sentiment right now - steer clear of unattractive women with bones to pick, and you'll quickly find that - at least among pretty younger women - this "stigma" against older men dating younger women is primarily the figment of a small group of the media's imagination.

Let's sweep aside the deliberate confusion of the rabble-rousers and have look at what actually goes on out there in the real world of older men and the younger women they date.

Comments

Anonymous's picture

Super article, Chase. I totally agree with all of what you have said. It's a very interesting subject.

I have a quick question in regards to love.

Do you believe in love at first sight? Or do you believe that it is created over time? Or both?

If a girl falls in love with you quickly, before you sleep with her is this going to hinder your chances of quick sex? Because she simply values you so highly (loves you) and so wants to not risk losing you. or will this improve your chances of her sleeping with you as she is so susceptible to what you say and when you lead?

I haven been able to work it out

Thanks

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Anon-

Yes - it's something I've experienced a number of times. I talked about it a while back here: Love at First Sight.

I'm still not entirely sure how it works. I've had it happen from far away, so it can't be scent; I've had it happen with very different-looking girls (white girls, Asian girls, Indian girls, Latinas), so I'm not convinced it's looks; at one point I thought maybe it was the girl strongly communicating interest and you picking up on that and mirroring it back to her, but not all of these have been women I'm certain saw me first. And I seem to have a very good radar for picking out girls who are exactly my type; the majority of women I've felt this with have been the kind of vivacious go-getters with advanced degrees and good careers I like best. It's not pure beauty because - while the girls I usually get this feeling with are quite beautiful - I also see other girls I'd rate equally beautiful, or maybe even more so, that I don't get that feeling with.

Anyway, not sure what causes it... BUT, when it's there, you can move as fast as you possibly can, because it's almost always mutual. And this "love" at first sight is really infatuation at first sight - and she will want you quite bad. It's a much more carnal thing that the usual emotionless / mechanical / deliberate dating process people put themselves through. Love at first sight is a kind of, "God, I want you NOW, and I KNOW it, and I don't NEED to get to know you first," type of deal.

Assuming she feels the same way - game on.

Chase

Kyle's picture

Hey Chase,

I've been waiting for this article for a while. Well done, bro. Great perspective as usual and in a logical way as I'd expect from you.

I have an issue, however, as the subject of this comment denotes. I have started seeing a girl who is 21 and I'm 33. My friend, who is 25, introduced us without ever mentioning my age, and I believe she assumed I was his age when he set us up because everyone in that group of friends is no older than 25. The first night we met, in April, she almost immediately asked how old I was and I told her "27."

Yep, I lied because I felt old and wanted to relate more with her. Huge mistake, I know. I didn't discover this site at the time and would never have done that, looking back on it. So I did bring her to bed and she meets many of the qualities you talk about in finding the right girl. We've started moving forward, and we have the start of a relationship. Honestly, I can see myself long term with this girl.

So now it's late July and I still haven't told her how old I really am. What's the best way to do this?

Chase, honestly man, you're the only person whose advice I really trust in this matter. Please help a brother out.

Thanks,
Kyle

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Kyle-

I responded to another gent just a few weeks back with the same situation and almost the same age gap too (11 years in his case, 12 in yours; he said he was 6 years older than her, as you did).

My reply to him there was the same as what I'd recommend for you here; have a look:

Re: Fixing Things

Chase

Jesse C.'s picture

You're right on the mark Chase with your whole analysis. This article is an instant classic. I like particularly in your distinction between stand outs and ordinaries and how the rules are different for them.

I sent you an email, but in case you missed it, the links at the top of your site are BROKEN--!!!!

Jesse C.

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Thanks Jesse! That was a nut that took me a little while to crack... why is Michael Douglas dating Catherine Zeta-Jones okay, but some regular old guy interested in a regular young gal is a dirty old man? Eventually you realized it's merely yet another version of cool guy vs. creepy guy.

Appreciate the heads up on the links at top. Second time I've seen this happen now... seems to be a problem with the caching. All fixed for now - I'll probably need to ask our guys in IT to take a look at what's causing that to happen sometimes recently.

Chase

Rocker4Hire's picture

Wow! Another great article, Chase!

I'm a recently divorced 52-year old and my previous wife was a 34 year old. Sadly, she fell into the gold-digger category but plenty of friends of mine were envious at the time. However, I think that if I had previously had the knowledge and experiences that you (and the other writers) have laid out here, things might have turned out better OR I would have exited much quicker. Good old hindsight, LOL!

As I've mentioned in a previous post, I play lead guitar in a heavy metal band in San Diego. And I'm constantly getting approached and/or noticed by younger women ALL the time since early this year. At first, I felt very awkward about it because I could sometimes sense other people around me (male and female friends, etc.) rolling their eyes or thinking, really?

A larger portion of these women are from 26 to 36 years old. I get approached, and I approach, older women in their forties too. But when I approach these younger women I'm not even considering any type of hookup at all. I'm just treating them like a new fan of the band and stearing the conversation that way. But what's funny is I've had four young women recently say things to me like "I totally like older guys like you" or "I prefer older guys or feel more comfortable being around older guys like yourself." Honestly, I was stunned by a lot of this and didn't know what to make of it at first. And I didn't take it seriously.

I think overall, about 80% of my friends and acquantences were totally okay with this older man / younger woman coupling. And they've all been very encouraging and supportive about it. Like you mentioned, there are small groups that have issues with it. I've decided to ignore them and proceed with caution. A few women I saw on a dating website recently who were between 40-55 years old saying that things like "if you're not dating women within 5 years of your age, or someone your own age, then you have serious issues and can stop wasting your time with me." That's when I hit the "Next" button, LOL!

I guess the other reality here is that some of these younger women in that age bracket already have young children from a prior relationship. It's a tough one because a lot of these young women are gorgeous too. I don't want to catch myself saying "never say never" but I'd be more okay hooking up with these women having teenage kids as opposed to toddlers. If I were still in my thirties or forties, I'd be okay with the younger ones. You'll understand when you reach my age, LOL! And at my age, a LOT of women between 28 and 49 look hot to me.

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Monsterz-

You'll frequently see women pan more desired women and try to frame them as less desired and frame the men who are interested in them as "little boys" under the assumption that if only those men would "grow up" they would then be interested in THEM. You'll see it with older women panning younger women and the men who date them, and expatriate women panning local women and the men who date THEM in foreign countries (e.g., expatriate women in Japan do not like Japanese women… largely because the majority of the expatriates don't stack up too favorably vs. the Japanese, and regardless, most of the expatriate men who are there are there specifically for the local women. Expatriate women there paint the expatriate men as "immature" or "little boys," same as older women paint men who date younger women).

There are a lot of attractive single mothers who are younger, that's true, and many of them are more drawn to older men - they had a younger man, didn't work out, have some bad experiences tied to that, and now they're in a less financially secure position and are looking for stability - an older man can easily provide that, so he becomes a more attractive option. Plenty of pretty young girls without children who will find you attractive as an older guy if you've got everything bolted down tight too, although they won't be nearly as aggressive in throwing themselves after you than the single mothers sometimes will.

Chase

Nuncle's picture

Hi Chase

Superb analysis as always, especially for a "top shelfer" like me!

Was reading your reply on another thread about not risking jail by getting physical with dunderheads who challenge you.

Your site has some great stuff about how to smoothly put down subtle social challenges/cock blockers and so on.

But what would be your approach to a challenge that is not at all subtle or socially aware, that is just intended to tear you down as quickly as possible, probably out of envy that you are getting intimate with the hottest girl in the room?

I know envy, especially sexual envy, can quickly bring out the dark side in men. For some reason I have always had a fear of chatting to a gorgeous woman and having some envious little drunk guy coming a long and chucking his drink over us both.

Don't know if this is rational or not but what would be your response to such an attack?

I agree with what you say about just ignoring the saddo who tries to challenge you (eg by punching you) but is it different if he does so in front of a hot girl you are with?

Cheers

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Nuncle-

It's easy to worry about this - I certainly did when I first started going out solo at night - but, I've spent years in nightclubs and parties and dive bars and around all kinds of tough drunk guys, and I've been punched maybe four times in all my nights out, only one of those being over a woman - and in that case, it wasn't even a woman I was interested in or trying to get, and she wasn't even attractive - I was legitimately ONLY asking her for directions (the guy was drunk off his rocker, and foreign, so didn't know what I was saying to his woman).

The worst thing I've had happen to me over a girl from drunk guys was when a girl I was dancing with at the end of a night suddenly had two drunk guys cut in between the two of us and start grinding on her and she got repulsed, and I stepped in and said, "Excuse me, gentlemen," and pulled her away, and then the guys started shoving me and a bouncer stepped in and separated us. I didn't end up getting the girl, but I'd been losing her long before those guys interjected themselves.

Anyway, personally I'd LOVE to have a drunk guy dump his drink on me and some hot girl. That's an instant "US VS. THEM" moment, where you just look at him disgusted, then take your girl and go, "C'mon, let's get out of here."

If a guy punches you in front of a girl you're talking to… yeah, you've pretty much got to mess him up if you don't want to lose the girl (assuming she isn't already your girl that you've slept with a few times already). But again, I've never had that happen to me ever - worst have been a few shoving incidents from really drunk guys, or the occasional angry boyfriend showing up to claim ownership (at which point, you defuse things for a minute, then leave).

Chase

Anonymous's picture

I find myself in these situations all the time. A beautiful slender young woman throws her dress over her head in order to show me a tattoo on her inner thigh, and social calamity ensues. A woman walks up to me in order to ask me a few questions about what is on the menu, and the restaurant employee begins barking at me in a hostile manner, and it is evident to me that he knows exactly where he keeps his knives, and he has already considered which one to grab, in order to "defend" himself, should I launch out at him. What their envy is loudly proclaiming is that they and not you should be the object of the woman's attention, and that the disturbance that they are creating is justified by their sense of emotional pain at the injustice of it all. Strange thing, when I was younger I used to keep an automatic in my car and a buck knife for personal protection. And I didn't run into any of these types of characters at all. I think they can vibe you. If you are coming across as unoffending and non-threatening, someone will attempt to fill the power vacuum. A lot of the time, it is a bitter runt. I mean, there are people who will openly declare just how screwed they believe they are, perhaps they got some random girl pregnant, she was determined to keep the kid, and now he's living in a tiny shit hole of an apartment with some girl he doesn't care for and a crying baby he wish he never fathered. And now he wants to take his frustration out on you, by casting out disparaging remarks. It almost makes me want to laugh. Really, all you have to do is lean back in ease and smile over their predicament. That by itself would be like a well deserved blow to their face.

Steve's picture

Hi Chase! Just have a follow-up quick question for you regarding long distance relationships, I had posted on your other "vampire" article. Long story short before college ended, I met this girl and the dynamics at the time was that she was a lot more invested in me than her. I made out with her and afterwards she asked me to be best friends with her I think because she was afraid of me just using her and moving on.

For the past two months she had a lot of investment in me and we'd talk everyday and she kept asking when she'd see me. Recently about a week or so ago, she started dropping contact with me (supposedly due to the long hours of her work).

Recently, I told her I'd be in the area in a few days and she did seem somewhat interested. I expect her to ask me again in a few days to try to confirm when I arrive. I really would like to move on like you said and continue to better my approach with women so I decided I don't want to meet with her this time.

In this case, would it be best for me to completely ignore her or to just tell her I am too busy? Which method do you think would result in her having stronger emotions towards me (If at all any)? I say this because she's the kind of girl who would obsess over a guy for a year if he ignored her.

Thanks Chase!

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Steve-

If you want her having stronger emotions toward you, you can just tell her, "Hey, I think we had the wrong ideas here… I really dug you, but we live pretty far away, and I think you like me more as a friend. So it's probably better if we just dial this relationship down so we can both move on with our lives," then do that. I've had this conversation with two women in my life, and both chased after me a fair bit after, and continued to ping me for years. You're HARD into the boyfriend frame if you ever try to rekindle something with them then… I haven't bothered (I legitimately lost interest in both these girls after writing them off), so I don't know how well this works in the end game.

The other option is tell her if she messages you, "Hey, I won't be able to meet this time, I'm just really busy. Next time for sure!" or don't send her anything if she hasn't messaged you first. That can actually sometimes drives girls batty for you too, and makes you look like the elusive bad boy - it's more intriguing than the first example, but you have less control over whether it gives her something to think about or stands out to her emotionally. It doesn't have quite the "star-crossed romance" feel of the first one.

Chase

Steve's picture

Wow, thanks Chase, that really hits the spot! To get her out of my mind, I decided to remove her from my friends list on facebook because my reasoning was that it wasn't gonna help me seeing her on my newsfeed or whatever each and every day. Was that the right decision or would it make me seem too emotional or weak? Thanks Chase!

Anonymous's picture

Hey Chase,

I enjoyed this article particularly because the ideal standard of an older man you described and the objective of seducing younger women are topics quite foreign to me (but fascinating and very relevant to my future).
I’m 19 years old and have been following girlschase.com for about 2 years. In some of your past articles you’d written about how self-improvement oriented you were beginning from your earlier years and I am quite the same (a neurotic self-improvement oriented guy). Also like you wrote about in this article, as a young guy I’ve had my fair share of success with women and think in my head “wow I’m the shit” but really it’s true and I know, that the experiences I’ll live through from continually moving towards my goals will eventually put me many miles ahead of where I am now.

Being 19 but idealistic (having higher expectations), girls younger than me tend to bug me, and even before I was actively working on seduction, I always had a thing for older girls (or at least girls with an older persona who are more mature/experienced).
I have done the bulk of my approaches during the day and was talking with my buddy just last night at the gym (while we worked arms; a fun workout) just about this topic regarding ages of women we are with. My friend, Danny is his name, is 22 and he used to work as a stripper/dancer at clubs for women. He gets what he gets all from night-game and we were talking about what we thought of dating older girls. My oldest girl has been 25 but my friend has been with pretty older ladies 30+.

My friend was saying how now that he is 22 going on 23, dating women 19, 20 (younger than him by a year or two) essentially is doable because they reach an appropriate level of maturity/experience. I can’t seem to find that yet with most girls my age and younger than me and am fine with dating girls older than me (usually 20 years old or around there).

Is there a certain age that my aversion for dating girls younger than me will fade (aversion is a fitting word because especially a few years back, I really couldn’t stay with girls younger than me at all) or an age at which girls attain a certain optimum level of maturity for being with despite being younger than you?

-thanks for everything, look forward to your input on this

p.s.

This is kind of relevant to the topic but kind of not. Reading through this article, the type of older man you described, I kept seeing him in my head as a sort of George Clooney-esque fellow. I was wondering what you think of Clooney? He seems to be doing all right in his older years with dating younger women (appears to but we can’t really know for sure I suppose), but at what age does that go, does he become too old? Or does it not have to go and he can be the seducer for as long as he pleases.. ;)

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Anon-

Actually, it's quite common for younger men to prefer older women. I did, most of my friends did, and there's even a study on it I'm planning on including in the next part of this 2-parter here: "Adolescents' Age Preferences for Dating Partners: Support for an Evolutionary Model of Life-History Strategies."

Your aversion to 19 / 20 year-old women might not be age-based so much as personality-based. e.g., when I meet an independent-minded 19-year-old who isn't completely boring OR she's just really into me from the get-go and we don't need to waste much time on chit-chat, I like 19-year-olds. But when I meet one who's all about her girlfriends and OMG! and school and whatever, then I don't really like 19-year-olds that much (and didn't, even when I was 19 years old). It also changes depending whether you're thinking about her as a person or as a sex partner; when you're just horny and thinking about women as sex objects, 19 is fine. When you want a nice, relaxed seduction with good conversation, 19 tends not to cut it; you need a woman with a bit more life experience for that.

Clooney I think is a great example of a smooth, sexy older man. His voice in particular is very well put-together; it's a great voice to study if you want to make yours more sexy (voice is a huge part of a man's sex appeal).

I don't know if there's an absolute upper limit to sexiness; Sean Connery is in his 80s now, and I still hear high school girls talk about how sexy he is. Part of that is celebrity, of course; if they had no idea who he was and met him at random on the street, I think the majority of younger women would have no reference point tying him to "sex symbol," and instead their only relatable reference point for a man his age would be "grandfather," and that's how they'd see him - as a granddad (i.e., asexual).

However, that's something I'll likely talk about in the next article too.

Chase

Thinking Enigma's picture

This article, even thought it's aimed towards an audience that's a fair bit older than myself, has assuaged what is probably my biggest anxiety about learning to be good at dating. I'm 20, and I've felt this pressure to learn everything before I graduate from college, or else I wouldn't stand a chance later. This anxiety has really screwed up my game, because I've put too much expectation on all my encounters The last bit of this article really helped me get some perspective on the whole thing.

Thanks Chase

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Glad to hear it, TE.

Your 20s ARE immensely important... it's when you lay the groundwork for everything you'll do the rest of your life. The skills you learn and experiences you have in your 20s define the man you are ever after.

That said, the real living doesn't start until after university - so don't stress it too much.

See college as your test bed for trying out new stuff and figuring what roads you want to head down. The world awaits after.

Chase

Franco Lombardi's picture

Hey TE,

Don't be in any rush or feel any pressure to have this down before you leave college! I'm 25, and I only discovered Chase's material about 15 months ago (when I was 24). You certainly can apply this stuff once you graduate. In fact, your cold approach skills don't REALLY improve until you start going out to bars and places where there are no social ties to any of the women you approach whatsoever, and naturally talented men will surround you who will be gaming women as well.

That being said, I actually wish I could have been in your position! If I had been applying this material back when I was in college, I would certainly be miles ahead of where I am now, and that's saying a lot because I've come pretty damn far in under two years.

So if you think you are behind the learning curve in any respect, then don't sweat it. You're actually ahead of schedule. ;)

Cheers,

Franco

Funman's picture

Hey Chase,

In big cities girls usually seem more receptive to older guys wearing suits etc in a lounge/ club setting.

Usually they are party girls.

1) Would you say girls who do not go to nightclubs and bars etc, are they also interested in older men?

2) I have a friend in his early 40's approached a group of girls who were around 24-25 year old. They started making fun of him for hanging out in a bar and saying things like hes in his 40s & never been married etc, putting him down.

How he should have dealt with them?

3) In your opinion men who are older, are there certain venues they should avoid when meeting younger women?

4) In your opinion men who are older, should their approach / opener be different than younger men when approaching younger women?

Thanks for an amazing article.

Funman

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Funman-

All these questions (and more) I'll answer in the next article ;)

However, for now, on #1… YES! Absolutely.

Not all of them… but a healthy number are at least receptive to the idea (and some are older guy fanatics).

And on #2 - that's one of the problems we'll talk about with being an older guy, is the reputation considerations women have. You'll run smack into a wall with girls in college, for instance, because their friends see and know and judge, and it makes the rest of their time in school suck - college girls tend to be conservative in their dating options (only what they KNOW their friends will approve of). Same thing happens sometimes in groups of girls partying - but then, groups of girls partying give poor receptions to LOTS of men. Chances are, he wasn't being laughed off for his age - he was being laughed off for his approach, period. The next 25 year old who comes up will get laughed off for something else just the same as your older friend did ("OMG, how much did you have to DRINK tonight? Shouldn't you be passed out in a bathroom stall right now or something? LOL!!!").

On the rest of them: stay tuned...

Chase

Kyle's picture

Great advice, Chase.

Just a quick question. Once the situation is brought up, I'll absolutely scoff it off like it's no big deal, but when she asks WHY I lied, I'm going to say because when I first met her and I didn't think I would even want to see her again because I didn't take the date all that seriously (I could add because she was so young) and that I just said I was 27 so she'd go along with the date.

What do you think of that? It shows that I wasn't too eager to meet her so it reminds her of the chase frame that I set up. Any thoughts?

Oh, and I appreciate you taking the time to help me out. It means a lot, thanks.

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Kyle-

That sounds perfect. Only thing I'd change is instead of saying "so you'd go along with the date" (which sounds like you're trying to chase / seduce / entice her), I'd phrase it, "to make things easier on myself."

She probably won't bother clarifying, but if she asks what that means, just give her a sexy smile and go, "Well, you know... pretty girl, cool date, never gonna see her again... make things EASIER on myself, of course!"

Chase

Franco Lombardi's picture

Kyle,

Chase's advice goes pretty much goes along with what I've recommended on the discussion boards. The more you make it seem like a big deal, the more she's going to make it a big deal. It's all about the frame.

When this issue comes up, you should be smiling almost the entire time. Your frame should be: "the fact that this girl is even concerned about this is hilarious." And then, as Chase mentioned, flash her a sexy smile and continue framing it as if it's something that's extremely trivial, and even slightly funny. She might try to ruffle your feathers a bit to see if you crack, but if you maintain a relaxed frame about it, she'll pick up on it and eventually forget that it was even an issue.

Good luck, Kyle!

- Franco

Kyle's picture

Thanks again! You're right about changing it up so I don't look like the one chasing. And yeah, I'll keep it playful and sexy. Perfect.

Man, you really got this down in every way! Haha

Regards,
Kyle

Danny's picture

OMG!!! I just can't control my overwhelming emotion after I read your post, Chase Amante! You are an except!! A freaking expert! A freaking genius in Psychology and Social Interactions that decode all the sh*ts that the mainstream society won't teach us directly!

From your blogs, all I see are facts, results, and SCIENCE!! My saliva rush out like how a flood lose control in Oklahoma after I finish reading your article! Good job!

~Your ebook is the principles, your articles are the specifc cases/

Lefonz's picture

Hey Chase, kind of unrelated to this article, but how do you find all these psychology articles on the Internet? Every time I try to research any topic in this field, I just get Yahoo answers or some random answers from some random forums. I would love to see your methods in doing research around seduction, mindsets, etc, or even an article on how to do research would be even more appreciated.

Your answer to my previous question helped me out a lot by the way, thanks for that!

Cheers,
Lefonz

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Lefonz-

Google Scholar is tremendous help (here). If you have the right search terms, you can usually find some interesting (sometimes thought-provoking) results. For this article, for instance, I searched for

"older man" "younger woman" dating

... and came up with everything you see in this article and Part II.

Barking Up the Wrong Tree can also be quite useful for finding interesting snippets of research; I've cited Eric's site in several articles here.

I also try to keep up-to-date with Scientific American and Nature.com, and over the years these have clued me into studies or metastudies that would probably be hard to dig up otherwise / you wouldn't know what to look for, or that that research was even out there.

Chase

V's picture

So Chase are you saying that us men can do what women do with are looks and body to make them spend money on us and want to sleep with us? Im talking about the part when you said girls chasing goals instead of being stay at home girls. I just want to know if a guy could make a girl who has a better career than him want him as a guy who has a good career would want a sexy girl. Pretty much role reversal.

Author
Chase Amante's picture

V-

Certainly, it's possible, but just like the sexiest women often get their pick of the litter with men, if you want to be the male equivalent you need to make yourself as much of a male sex kitten as possible. Muscles are a big one here (especially abs), as is fashion, hair, and the air you keep about yourself.

Then again - you'll more likely land the somewhat-attractive-but-overworked high sex drive career woman looking for a fling with a boy toy. Occasionally these girls can be beautiful too, but they usually aren't very flashy / made up when they are. Many of my female friends who fit this category have sexy boy toys they date from time to time.

It's rarer to see women spending money on men, and this usually requires a fair amount of skill in pulling the right strings on the man's part. It's from the Dark Side of seduction though, and not something I teach or advise you to do... at best it leads to bitterness and broken hearts, just as it does with female gold diggers and their male hosts.

Chase

Jimbo's picture

If you want to keep a provider woman around, I'd advise you to:
1. Be a GREAT lover, to give her outstanding sex.
2. Do masculine stuff around the house, like repairing this and that, DIYs, plumbing, taking care of the pool, the gardening, with the tools and overalls that go with them.
3. Be in great physical shape and look good. Have a sexy body, great hair, and facial hair (if it goes with your style).
4. Surprise her. Take her to places, accompany her, and provide some adventure for her.
5. Help with the kids if you have any, obviously.
6. (Optional) Become a chef.

V's picture

K fed is the perfect example of what I'm talking about. How do guys like him get the Britney Spears'?
Girl has millions but falls in love with him while he just has kids with her and chills living the good life.

Author
Chase Amante's picture

V-

Don't know enough about him to say, but reading his biography on Wikipedia, he sounds like a classic flimflam artist: promising the world, but what he actually produces (his relationships, his music, etc.) is crud. Constantly on the defensive trying to convince people that, no, the emperor DOES have clothes on! Look again, you'll see!

You can develop the skills of a Federline (put yourself in the right places, say the right things to the right people, etc.), but I'd highly recommend developing the substance and abilities to back up the words - otherwise, you'll have the same falling outs, the same feelings of betrayal, and all the rest that have made up the bulk of his life, so far as I can tell.

Chase

Jimbo's picture

He's handsome bro. And although I don't find him sexy (I'm a dude), he does have all the attributes of the douchebaggy/badboyish/swag type of hot guy.

Britney is rich and successful, so she probably doesn't really need that in a guy. She can afford to go for the exciting loser "about to turn their lives around."

Flames's picture

Hi Chase,

I'm very glad to hear that the age category of 35-45 is the perfect age for this. I must admit that age really has no concern for me, that being said I do find that most young women are in better shape physically, are more vibrant, less cynical and basically more fun to be with. I would never discount anyone because of age (obviously within reason), but I think most guys would prefer someone younger than they have now, for biological reasons if for nothing else it makes more sense. It's funny you should pick 35 as your starting age for this that was about the time I got into this, started off by meeting a younger women (23), so for me at least this post is spot on. I think I just get on better with younger women (and men for that matter) generally anyway though I do have friends of all ages.

I think probably the most important fundamental traits are hygiene, neat and tidy appearance and intelligence. What do you think?

Ive just read that love at first sight post for the first time too, very interesting...

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Flames-

It's true - most of the women over 27 or 28 you'll meet who are still single are progressively more cynical... simply because they've been burned before, often repeatedly. Of course, there's some selection bias; women who, say, marry the love of their lives at 24 are often permanently frozen cynicism-free at their views of love back from age 24, barring any unfortunate happenings in their marriage. Or women who start dating much later in life - this can be true for them too.

On the most important fundamentals, I'm actually not super sold on hygiene / tidiness... I've found I generally do better with women when I haven't showered that day (my presumption is my scent is stronger), and I often get high attraction following a work out, covered in sweat and in baggy gym clothes. Intelligence is certainly a big one - displayed through humor, mental aptitude, and social savvy, usually. One of the biggest in my mind is a very sexual vibe - this one's a game changer when you go from not having it to having it... it just makes everything much easier. Strong and confident leadership and adroitness at continually moving things forward and handling a woman's emotions so that she's always excited and comfortable is another big one.

Chase

Flames's picture

Actually that's a good point about being sweaty, we've talked about this before.

As I'm someone who doesnt need/use deodorant I have also found that smelling like a man is better than not smelling like one. Then again I eat almost all fresh foods, no packet meals and hardly any take-outs, so I'm relatively toxin-free, maybe that helps.

Dash's picture

Glad to read this article and looking forward to the next one.

I'm an upper 30s man who is dating a firecracker type younger professional woman. She's nine years younger than me.

Age didn't come up until the first time I brought her back to my place. She asked me how old I thought she was. I honestly didn't know, and hadn't really thought that much about it. I guessed she was older, not because she looked in her upper 20s, but because she was a calm character, had a good head on her shoulders.

She then asked how old I was and I told her. It's never really been a big deal for me... unless the girl is significantly younger and acts young, and overly "girly."

However, a couple points. I look young (barring the touch of grey creeping into my hair) and get asked for ID fairly regularly. I'm also in good shape.

Before I got with my girlfriend I had some success meeting young women, but it was more a reactions vs results situation because I thought it was a bit off to chase girls in their low 20s. I'd bought into the age paradigm. Also, with young women... they can be emotional and flakey and I don't need drama in my life.

I found the bar scene, or pub scene, to be a wash. Not bad for meeting women, but I wasn't meeting the kind of girls I wanted to date. I've never been great at night game, so I started doing more day game. Bingo.

My target range ended up being 25 to 30. Having said that - I know many successful, hot, women in their early 30s who cannot find men. They don't like "boys" and have trouble meeting smooth older men who will add value to their lives (have to watch women in their early 30s, though... they tend to be very forward thinking in their relationships, in that they want to settle down and have kids before it's too late, that kind of mentality).

So my advice to the older men out there: be picky in dating. Hook up if\when possible, of course, but choose a relationship carefully. As an older dude, I don't want to get tossed to the side by a younger woman... for a younger man... just because he's younger.

Wolf's picture

Chase my man, I'm not depressed really I'm just not happy. Your article about depression helped me with the negative thoughts but, im more on the neutral side of things instead of positive. I don't get sad I just get angry or im monotone and dont really care about anything.

I also feel very irritable and sometimes don't want to be bothered by anyone. I have low energy also, how can I increase it ?

Thank you chase for helping me with all of my problems.

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Wolf-

I'm convinced this one is totally dependent on having things in your life that you are working on that build toward a more positive future. e.g., you are working hard to build a skill that will make you a substantial future income, or you're saving up more and more money to allow you to take time off to go travel the world and do whatever you want, or you're pushing yourself out there multiple times a week to meet more new women and get progressively better at meeting, dating, and sleeping with girls, or you're taking a class in some skill you really want to get good at - martial arts, dance, surfing, heck, parkour - anything you care about being awesome at.

When you have things you're working to handle / master, you get a certain excitement about life and into a habit of unlocking your own potential in a way that most people never really will.

Chase

K..'s picture

I would say, when it comes to age difference, 10 years is not even a big one. I'm a 32-year-old woman and if I was dating someone in his early forties, I wouldn't consider myself as dating someone old. Rather something like, " we're nearly the same age, oh wait, well he's a little older actually". I know a couple where the man is 31 and the woman is 23, and most of the time I don't even seem to remember she's younger. They are both still studying, no children, no significant careers or property, so one really cannot tell. I often think that the situation in life means more than age itself in these cases. A 31-year-old man who still wants to study... or party or travel the world... may get along much better with a younger woman who has the same mind than he would with someone of his own age who's already had two marriages and four kids and thinks he's just a boy who doesn't know anything. :) Well, I guess it could be other way around, too, though it rarely is, I think...

Anonymous's picture

I have seen many posted comments which run older men down.
The truth is that many men are better sexual partners in their 40's and 50's than they were in their 20's and 30's. They usually have higher levels of stamina and endurance and they take their time with women, not rush through the action.

Many men at 40 and 50 are at an age where they have accepted their flaws, or have begun to make life changes towards more authentic living. Many are entering adulthood, as opposed to young men of 20 and 30 who are still behaving like infants.

Very often, an older man can act as the teacher of a young woman, with precious life skills, encouragement and career advice, as well as provide money and good judgement. There is also the wisdom which comes from age. Youth cannot offer that.

Just as many younger men like and appreciate older women for the same reasons, there can be many advantages to dating older men. If a younger women is attracted to me because I can make her life more comfortable, why is that considered a bad thing in the west. What it shows mostly, is that western values are the problem.

Anonymous's picture

My boyfriend is 24 years my senior, and we couldn't be happier. I get alot of "your a gold-digger" and he is "creepy". This article pretty much sums up how we feel about each other. We do show each other off quite often, we talk about a family, etc. If our relationship were to end, it would not be due to age difference. Believe it or not we are both at a place in our lives where we want the same things still. I am not saying that the age gap between us is for everyone because its not. You still need like minds and views. We have the same moral standards, political views, and religious views.
"Here's how it really shakes out, in my experience: older guys with their stuff together are SEXIER" - this comment right here is beyond true however. Why would I want a boy who has no idea what he wants in life, is un experienced and is still finding himself when I can have a MAN. So to all the older men out there, you can get a younger attractive women with a good head her shoulders, financially independent, and have plenty in common with her to make it a compatible relationship into marriage even. Thank you for the well thought out and intelligent article.

Anonymous's picture

Hey Chase,

first of all great site, helped me realize quite a lot. THANKS A LOT MAN!
But considering this article, there's something, many people seem not to think about. Lets take your 28 year old girl with 42 year old man example (as something very similar happend in my social circle a few weeks ago):
Apparently, the girl chooses the man for his experience and success, if she gets together with him, she will profit from that and that is what attracts her to him.
But here is the thing: As the girl grows older, so does the man and when she is 50 years old, he will be 64. Taking into consideration, that girls tend to live about 5 years longer than men, it's very likely that the man in this example will die about 20 years(!) before her, leaving her heartbroken and alone in the midst of her 50s...with not many options in dating anymore, how is that a desirable thing?

Jimbo's picture

According to my observations, all in all, younger and older men have pretty much equal attractiveness, but for different reasons and traits.

Things typically found attractive in younger men:
- They are more boisterous, and are more likely to have that cocky, rebellious attitude.
- Have better physiques, are more athletic, and have more hair (on their heads).
- Are more adventurous, exciting, and challenging to their girls -- they need more "fixing".
- Tend to be physically stronger.
- Are more "hip", and more in tune with "what's in".

Things that are typically found attractive in older men:
- They have more actual power (money, property, connections, social skills, etc.) as opposed to the illusion of power younger men give through their attitude.
- Have more authority.
- Make better and more natural leaders.
- Have more experience and the "been there done that", unimpressed attitude that comes with it.
- Are more knowledgeable about "how the world works."

If older men added a little adventurous, playful, and/or mischievous side to them, as well as a better physique, they'd be having the whole package.

Obviously those are averages and tendencies. You'll always find some younger men who have typical older man traits or don't have some typical younger men traits, and vice-versa.

stef123321456654's picture

"However, the idea has been criticised because it does not explain why young women are not attracted to all older men. As a result, Proulx has put forward new findings in the Proceedings of the Royal Society - a theory that combines both the ideas of wealth and male longevity. It is the very fact that an older male can still display his munificence that really makes a female's head turn. A younger male may do so, but a potential mate does not know how long he is capable of maintaining that ostentation. It could be all over too quickly.

In other words, any stag that can still display a fine set of antlers in the twilight of its years, or an old peacock that can still rustle up a first-rate plumage - or an ageing Lothario who can still sport a Rolex and a riverside apartment - has to be considered a major catch. Only a creature with really powerful genes can do that and therefore attract females who are, in general, the ones who choose partners while males wait to be selected."

stef123321456654's picture

younger man / older woman couplings, you'll frequently be told, are a Bad Thing.

you mean younger woman / older man?

Nick Jonas's picture

The issue here is that if you are a law-abiding straight man - other groups have disadvantages unfortunately just how the world is - it is damn near impossible to not be 'exceptional' if you are older.

I know quite a few 'older' - 35+ - men their savings have accumulated over 1.5 decades of working, their professional and social network is large and constantly expanding, they are done with education - in a position of power vs being a student.

If you ask me the much larger problem for men - and one Chase has not addressed as much - is that a large number of men age 25 and under have no education, no job, no savings, no social network, no prospects that are even close to the average woman of the same age. What is a 'normal' 22 year old girl supposed to do if her and all her friends have a degree and a job at least some sexual and romantic experience at least some social conversational skills, a lot of 22 year old men don't have a college degree or work experience or conversational skills, and a small number of 22 year old men went to Harvard, MIT, Stanford, are multi-millionaire business owners actors athletes celebrities influencers and use that power to be in top top physical shape and dress to the nines in Gucci everywhere because it's cheap for them.

I don't even think the 22 year old stud can be used for his resources because any woman who tries to extract them will be weighed against the guy's future potential and the guy - if he's in good mental and physical health - will discount the future value and not take the bait.

Chase any ideas here?

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