How to Get Started When You’re Socially Hopeless | Girls Chase

How to Get Started When You’re Socially Hopeless

Chase Amante

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Chase Amante's picture

When I decided to start gunning hard for significantly improved social skills in 2004, that was when I had to come to grips with how hopelessly miserable my current social skills were, and how hopelessly far behind I was socially compared to everybody else.

Some part of me enjoyed being the total outsider, because I enjoyed the independence of the man apart, the one cut off from society. I figured this would make my eventual triumph all the more poetic. It was only when I set about trying to bring that triumph about that I came to realize it would be even tougher than I’d estimated.

socially hopeless

What I quickly discovered was that even some of the most basic social rules were alien to me. What do people talk about? How do they join conversations and move between groups? How do they not trip over their own feet socially and look dumb and find themselves excluded?

I’d already developed a good wit and the ability to tell an entertaining story by that point, so I wasn’t flying completely blind. But general conversation – interacting with other human beings in a setting in which I was not the guy on stage, cracking jokes or spinning stories or showing off my musical talents, was unknown to me. And was most human interaction... I couldn’t lean on jokes or tales or busting out freestyles to help there.

So, this one goes out to the social newbs, starting off hopelessly behind everybody else, realizing the rest of mankind has a 10+ year head start on them in learning how to socialize.

Let me tell you what I did, and give you some suggestions about what you can do.

Comments

sin's picture

The "at the beginning" and "once you are getting somwhere" sections are really nice. I have lately indeed started to invite more and it seems to be the right thing to do now.

@ Chase
I feel the reason why content you write has so much value to readers is the unmatched amount of context. As a reader I get used to your frame and increasingly trust its viability, the more matching reference points I have collected over time, be it by reading here or by using stuff in the real world.

In the end there is tons of good advice out there, but having so many high quality puzzle pieces from a single person is especially helpful. It`s a bit like with car parts. Having thousends of pieces is nice. Knowing which pieces are high quality is even better. But having a big bunch of pieces from one single car that seem to perform well as a whole makes building your own car much smoother.

So for the future of your site you might use this. Focus on just a few different Authors who have different angles at life. Then have thouse Authors provide as much interlinked content as possible.

Like a car company who offers a Sportscar, a Truck and a Limousine for example. Ideally have the Authors introduce themselves with their personal qualities and flaws, so its easy for the reader to chose who might fit their own situation or goals in life most and go from there.

As the Sportscar is fast, but sucks at carrying a lot of stuff, might be one Author. This I think is the next level of dating advice. To understand that "Truck - Advice" might be good for someone who wants to beocme a Truck but not for everyone.

Ideally you want the newby to have a rather easy way to realise what type of car he is already leaning towards and what he wants to build. Then provide a rolemodel with a big bunch of pieces, which have proven to form a solid synergistic frame.

You already have the "search articles by Author" function. Maybe go one step further and have a section with a few basic articles about each Author in which he explains concepts that set him apart and a bit of personal history, like where he came from and where he got to by now.

Cheers

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Sin-

Cheers for the suggestions on having authors that fit clear “types” and resources for readers to figure out what types they best match with. That’s an interesting angle, and one I hadn’t considered.

The point on readers slowly getting accustomed to my point of reference and increasingly trusting in it is well-noted, and I think fits in with what other guys have pointed out about when a new author comes on, they don’t know who this guy is or why they ought to listen to him.

Cheers,
Chase

Lawliet's picture

Thanks for this article Chase!

It means a lot to me, bro. *tears*
I'm pretty sure I'm a feely person (amiable) with mixed analytical (for learning)
Sorry if I'm being too sappy for a driver :D

I think I've been getting some mind reading powers lately after being around your site for a while.
It's like I read your mind and did accordingly after posting my comment in dec.
But I wouldn't have done so without your "How to master everything" and "Mastering friendships" and "Forge forward" to know to keep trying and observe those who do well to do well too.
Pain hurts, but I tell myself, it will make me better in the future. It will stop hurting!
Do it now and it won't hurt later

I've been socializing as much as possible.
There were times I stood there, near people talking to observe what was going on and what they were talking about that seem to be endless of content (when my conversations die quickly after deep diving into their passion, what they want to do, what job, then it ends there)

Eavesdropping, Being creepy and you name it ;D Yup!

I noticed that most stuff people talk about aren't really all that personal.
They would talk about movies, or shared interests.
Then when the conversation is about to die, the guy will usually tell stories about himself and more interesting experiences he had and the girl will look excited, giggle at it, then the guy will drop a banter or tease or two and so on..

It seems like they're on a roll. But the lesson there was, if I want to have tons of stuff to talk about, I need wide span of experiences to relate.
And also, not talk about myself only as those guys did, but rather ask stuff about her, and if she's being terse, do a cold read (to see if we can hit something's she's passionate about), or even give choices to choose from as we deliver our questions.
"So you chose x? But why not Y or Z?"

By the way, I'm guessing story telling is a good technique to help girls reach hook-point?
But you don't usually tell stories you said in an article.
How does your conversation usually go?
From what I've read, if storytelling usually isn't used by you, it probably looks like this:
1. A little boring question for rapport after opener (what's she's all about)
2. Ask for investment (continue throughout) - people are what they present themselves (ex. accessories, way they dress)
3. Banter a bit to alleviate tension
4. Proceed to deep dive
5. Relate accordingly (brief sentences or a brief story)
6. Banter to alleviate tension
6b. Using intrigue techniques (ex. push pull, astrology, intrigue, baiting, assumptions, disagreeing with women made effective, tension locks) if she hasn't bitten yet - hooked
7. Continue to deep dive (exhaust topic, change to next, key is asking the right questions)
8. Investment or move her / Pull / Number grab

But I digress.

Expanding experiences so we can relate and talk about any topic they like.
I see this as mainly my problem. They share about "I like to watch x" but then I have nothing to talk about that.
Which makes me think "Expose and do those activities myself, then I can relate (with discrimination)"
But let's say they talk about new trends, fashions or movies.

We are busy people.
How do we keep knowing those topics that update all the time without spending hours into watching movies, or newest fashion magazine every week?

Cheers,
Lawliet

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Lawliet-

Good to hear it!

Most conversation topics are impersonal, yes. That’s small talk - small talk is impersonal. Deep diving is personal. Good observations on guys flirting with girls.

Storytelling is an essential skill to have down. I suggest you get good at delivering short basic stories - little quick ones you can tell. Basically relating experiences. This you’ll weave into your remarks. Telling longer stories is something you do later… I might use a few now and then. My conversation looks like this (I know you’ve seen these before):

Conversation Example
The Conversationalist

As for your description of my style, mostly pretty accurate, though I usually won’t deep dive much if I’m just going for a phone number. Banter and a few questions about her to understand her better, but I’m not going deep.

As for staying on top of trends and fashions, pick whatever you’re interested in and follow a popular channel of some sort. Reddit, Imgur, etc., are good ones for what’s current. Fashion, there are dozens of fashion blogs out there. Or better still, find friends who are plugged into these scenes and like to spend all their time immersed in them, hang out with them, and let them fill you in on the most important details.

Chase

kristian's picture

Eye opening about something I thought I understood the basics on. Makes me realize how fun this ride is going to be.

no limits's picture

Hi chase, first let me tell you, if you come to florence , italy , my town, I'll be glad to be one of those kids who give u great reccomendations and host you.

As for the social skills, this town is quite small (350 000 people ), and the bar where socially savvy people hang out is mainly one. It s very small and so it s tough to change reputations issues ( smtg no one should care about too much) but do you think I should go there as well or not? because outside of that place i feel like a god, getting quite good results from street cold apporach , but there they probably think I'm the same of 2 years ago ( definetly not a loser, but not as smooth as I'm now).
I think the right thing to do would be to go there while also making sure to get other places where you form your identity ( i DON T WANT IT TO BE REVOLVING AROUND A BAR FULL OF SOCIAL CLIMBERS) so that one can see the big picture. But that s almost the only place with high society people in their 20ies.

of course, i plan on moving, but in the meantime what do u think I should do? you can't reallycold apporach men!! ahahah..

hope u can help,

you and robert greene are the most inspiring people i know.

Un grande abbraccio , my friend!

Author
Chase Amante's picture

NL-

Cheers for the invite in Florence! Truly a gorgeous town. Really probably the most beautiful city I’ve visited, bar none. And it seems MUCH busier in the heart of downtown than a population of 350K suggests. Makes many cities with 5x the inhabitants seem empty.

If you want to work social circle in one specific place, I suggest going on off nights when it’s mostly empty and getting to know the staff: bouncers, bartenders, manager, regulars. Tip well, be friendly, and gradually get to know them with time. Then you can start going on busier nights and you’ll be well-received by the staff, who have position-granting powers inside that artificial hierarchy.

Absolutely though, make sure you’re getting plenty of social touch points outside that place, lest it come to dominate your life (and self image)… as it likely does most of its frequenters’.

Chase

JJ's picture

I think people need to learn to desensitize and accept it's not worth to change who you are entirely for the sake of pleasing others like "friends" will come & go all the time it's a revolving door. I mean some of my friends have been in my life for 3-4 years, only has been there for 10 years the rest usually last less than a year guess what? life is harsh and impersonal get over it. There's a fine line between reaching that pinnacle of easy going comfort while socializing versus trading your authenticity for approval. Confidence is key relaxing, adapting and familiarizing yourself around others. We start in school with classmates, lecturers, guidance counselors (assuming no homeschool or online) , at work with colleagues, clients, sponsors, meetings etc. where we're forced to communicate in an efficient manner to accomplish the tasks we're assigned to complete yet also making sure we're receiving recognition. Folks need to get past the assumptions that all nerds are losers that wear glasses not sunglasses, braces, potato sacks etc. believing they can't get laid or multi-task. There are lots of geeks who are sophisticated, diversified and can achieve everything "popular" (usually phony/hypocrite) people can and so much more, difference is they remain focused and genuine. Meanwhile, the populars are stuck in life continuously failing and struggling to prosper b/c they're two-dimensional. Using all the skills and resources at hand while making the best from them is the strongest asset/tool a person can acquire. Having tutored math at different levels for many years I dealt w/ all kinds of students. Needless, to say the populars mentioned they could on one hand count the multifaceted nerds they shared hobbies or interests with and had friended. I didn't become friends with many, but I was invited and included in many stuff, finding guys never became an issue. So many YouTubers are huge success stories going from being loners to celebrities, all the while remaining true to themselves, just by taking that risk and exposing themselves out in the open. My advice is take it step by step, observe others first, practice with friends then go out and find the good in others. Let the fears go you'd be surprised at how so much stuff others say is so similar to something that would come out of your own mouth and how you'll want to have a conversation. Once you're a pro it will only takes a few words or a sentence to get you warmed up and ready to keep it running.

yaya's picture

Chase i want to heat more avout YOU. when was your first gf? and lose virginity? so funny you NEVER MENTIONED IT

Tennant's picture

What are things that every boyfriend should be doing for and with their girlfriend to maintain a healthy growing relationship??

african boyo's picture

Chase you the real mvp

youre scriptures yes i said scriptures have changed my lyf however lets stop the bs we need the real right now. How do we get girls that are monogomous but still cool with us seeing other chicks on the side. We need the answers chase

Author
Chase Amante's picture

;)

stef's picture

life saving realistic-optimism (suicide prevention obligatory read)!Thank you!

Ajay agarwal's picture

Hey chaise
I am really impressed by your ideas . I love reading and mostly there is a very little content in a whole book than there is in a paragraph of your article .

I always wanted to mention that ,the most practical advices i have ever got through reading is from your articles

Thanks

GoodPerson's picture

You should really write more articles on navigating the inevitable improving part "navigating the Jester-land". Maybe non-chalance is the key... But still ideas like "Get that non chalance from learning things you are not that scared at first" would be nice.

Author
Chase Amante's picture

GP-

You might actually say that's what the entirety of Girls Chase is about.

How do you go from the guy doing nothing and getting nothing (Unknown) to the guy who's actually getting results from his hard work (Peasant)... and eventually, the guy who gets results as effortlessly as possible (King)?

Only by paying your dues as Jester.

Any time you see an article to the tune of, "It's hard, it's going to suck, but you've just got to do it, and trust you'll get better with time," that's talking about spending time in Jesterland.

You are absolutely right though - it's important to start with smaller, easier, less intimidating steps and work your way up to the bigger ones. The little steps help you mount the big ones, later.

Chase

trilegius's picture

Hey Chase,great article man!!! I've got a question too,can reading too much theory without applying mess you up?I kinda fall into this trap,and I wonder what I should do? Stop reading like at all,and just applying or applying more but still read a bit here and there?

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Trilegius-

Yes, definitely!

If all you do is read, you eventually reach a point where you’re just hamstrung with thoughts of what you should do and how things should go and you lose sight of where to begin and what to do.

Best thing to do is take some beginner-level stuff (assuming you’re a beginner), like the tasks lain out in the Newbie Assignment or those in the books you get from the diagnostic quiz, and do them.

You can read a lot of theory so long as you go out and implement it. And the more experience you have implementing, the more easily you’re able to absorb new theory, because you can draw on reference experiences and say, “Oh yeah, my buddy did that with that redhead he picked up at Y Bar 3 months ago,” or, “You know what, that sounds like that thing I tried with the blonde chick a while back - I was on the right track!”, and you retain it / tie it into your mental model much better.

Theory’s good, but it must be coupled with action.

Chase

trilegius's picture

Thanks a lot for the answer Chase!!! I'm definently a beginner,and my goal this year is to beat approach anxiety!!! I still want to ask you something about losing my virginity.You see Chris from good looking loser says that guys who are inexperienced should try online dating sites to lose their virginity,not cold approach...what do you think about it?

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Trilegius-

Hmm, it's a curious suggestion.

On the one hand, if you go out and get some great professional pictures taken of yourself, I can see that working to help you hook up.

On the other hand, the women online are invariably all kind of broken, and you're also not doing much to correct the primary reason why you likely haven't bedded a girl yet, which is the fear of being assertive.

In my opinion, online is a fine supplement to real life game, whether social circle or cold approach, but you ought to always be using it in conjunction with real world approaching if you don't want to end up being that guy who gets all his lays off the web, settling for less attractive and crazier chicks than he could get in real life if he would have simply learned to say "hi" and hold a 5- or 10-minute conversation.

I suppose it's a somewhat longer learning curve to be able to meet girls in person and get dates, but for your long-term growth, I very much do recommend it. You can always play around with online as you approach in real life, but do approach in real life. The quality of woman is better, the learning is more comprehensive, and it's just all around a good thing for your own self-esteem to know you can walk out there and interact with flesh-and-blood strangers you like the look of without needing a glowing screen between you.

Chase

RS's picture

This is great Chase. It was just what I was looking for. Thanks so much.

Robb's picture

Brilliant and inspiring article as always!
I think this 'awkward-to-savvy' life path is truly empowering. It gives you a better understanding of social structures than normal people. Because most 'normal people' don't try to analyze these things consciously.
Being a loner in early years of life can be a blessing in disguise. It pushes you to improve yourself and if you make consistent effort, gradually you become dedicated to developing other areas of your life as well. You end up being better at life than most of the ordinary people.

Robster's picture

Man Chase I love your articles but it would be perfect if we could download them to read offline <3

Possible plan for the future on a paid premium idk?

Cheers,

Rob ^^

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Robster-

There’s a possibility at some point we might sit down and organize GC articles into books. That’s something we’re considering a bit further on down the road.

Offering them as a bonus for a premium membership, if we go that route, is a great idea - I’ll file it away under “Plans”!

Chase

Sub-zero's picture

What's going on... actually what's been going on is crazy. I'm talking about child support and alimony.

Chase those things makes a man not want to have a child nor get married. I know you say to find a girl who isn't crazy and wouldn't do you like that, but women change, people change.

I'm not talking about deadbeat dads, I'm talking about deadbeat mothers.

How do you avoid this terrible situation of taking car of your ex girlfriend, baby mom, or ex wife for 18 years while she sits on her ass?

Do you just avoid getting married and not having kids? It's like if you do anything wrong at all in a situation that the woman doesn't like, she can divorce you or put you on child support.

I have heard horrible stories of both and would like to know your thoughts on this and the best way to avoid them, and take control of the situation in case someone is too late and is going through it.

Think this would be a great article.

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Sub-Zero-

That’s one I’m a little hesitant to write an article on since it’s difficult to get hard evidence. I do have some theories about it, but unless/until I can marry/divorce 50 different women and have kids with most of them, it’ll just be speculation and not hard evidence. Suppose I could make an article saying, “Hey look, this is theory and speculation, based on my knowledge of women and some limited experience with marriage, so take it with a grain of salt, but hopefully it’s better than nothing.”

However, for now, I’ll say this: the guys who get divorced raped tend to be the ones who marry crazy chicks, and/or chicks they think they can “control” (i.e., women who cannot survive on their own, which means when the relationship is over she will need to use the state to consume part of your wealth for survival). When you go through divorce and the girl makes and has more money than you do (which was my experience), she will go out of her way to be extra nice to you. If you’re the kind of guy a woman legitimately fears would be a threat to her if she really crossed him (ahem, also my experience - basically, you’re a rational-yet-dangerous and subtly crazy caveman and not a sweet, dolt-like milquetoast husband-type… you know, the harmless American husbands you see on TV), divorce is a pleasantly rational experience where both parties sort things out civilly and she has no interest in doing something vindictive and pissing you off.

Additionally, if you pick a woman with poor morals, or you screw her over on the way out, you can expect a messy divorce. If she does not respect you, and views you as easy prey should she choose to leverage the system and hunt you down, expect a messy divorce.

The guys I see getting screwed over in divorce mostly 1.) don’t follow the advice of “date around lots and get to know women before you pick one” and end up making poor, misinformed decisions, which is sad, but avoidable (but still sad… not knocking those guys, but there’s no reason to make a bad choice on one of the most important choices you will ever make in your life if you’re an intelligent and self-improvement oriented individual, at least not if you’ve stumbled on a place like Girls Chase in time), or 2.) commit to crazy chicks that they know are trouble but they’re emotional guys and just can’t help themselves; they get sucked in and can’t get out. Or they are manipulative types looking for women they think they can control… these types often attract women who are looking to control them via acting deceptively submissive every bit as much as they are trying to control these women (that’s a case where I say two people who deserved each other, found each other).

If you live a rooted lifestyle and you’re not willing to move around much, you have limited options for escaping child support and alimony. The better bet there is prevention: play the field longer and DON’T marry / have children until you are older (35+ is my recommendation for rooted men), have lots of experience, and know exactly what you’re getting into. Then choose a woman who’s still young, sane, has good morals, and is financially independent. If you can’t get a woman with these qualities, you need more time in the field, and aren’t ready to hop out of the game yet anyway.

I probably should do an article on it, eh?

Chase

Sub-zero's picture

Ok, I'm going to work on my fundamentals hard.

Could you give me a quick recap on them

What fundamentals can I work on by myself that will make me better with women, that I don't have to approach? What fundamentals can I do on my own?

Can I get any type of good game before I start talking to girls? Or does game just come from talking to girls?

I know one big fundamental you say is being in shape. I'm having a hard time right now, I love fast food and junk food, I know they put something in that shit! I try to eat healthy, but get bored with the bland food.

I honestly feel shape is not important to women like that if you have good game. I kinda feel like what's the point of working out to get a good body, if you still have to go to her and approach and she won't come to you?

I feel like it's a waste because you still have to spit game.

Please Tell me how you feel about being in shape and how much easier it helps with women.

I'll honestly will work out more if it does help a lot with women.

Thanks Chase

Author
Chase Amante's picture

SZ-

Check out the “Categories” page:

Categories

Look for “Fundamentals.”

Better still, crack open my book if you have it, or buy a copy if you don’t. The very first chapter is all about fundamentals and which ones specifically to focus on.

Your shape is important. It makes a big different in appearance; even if you suck your gut in, there’s a difference in how your face looks at 20 lbs. overweight versus not overweight at all.

I noticed a big leap in the quality of women responding well to me when I dropped 20 pounds in 2008. I made a lot of changes to fundamentals at the same time though (better hair, better fashion, etc.), and my game improved, so I can’t pin all the success on that. I have no doubt it made a difference though. I’ve never come close to having a gut that big since… can’t say I miss having it.

Heck, even just working out ups your testosterone levels, increases your motivation to pick up, and makes you sexier. Lift weights, do calisthenics… do something to get the blood flowing and make yourself stronger. Women dig strong men. Strength is good.

Chase

Anonymous's picture

Chase what can I do about frame? I'm training my confrontational frame, but my problem is that I believe everyone's frames strongly all the time while I feel my frame is weak. How do I make their frame's weaker and stop believing in their frames. How do I make my frames stronger in the mean time while I go out and test it? Thanks

Author
Chase Amante's picture

Anon-

Challenge them. Expect to lose. But watch how they beat you. And the next time you are in a similar situation, try the same thing.

It’s like anything: as you get more exposure, the fear recedes, and the pieces begin to fall into place. But that doesn’t happen without exposure.

If you want to be comfortable talking with girls, go out and talk to 100 girls. I guarantee you’ll be a lot more comfortable after girl #100 than you were at the start.

If you want to be more comfortable in a sales role, start selling and interact with 100 customers. You’ll have at least a rough pitch and a decent idea how to handle objections once you’re at 100.

If you want to be better at fighting, go to sparring class for 100 sessions and make sure guys are actually hitting you. You’ll be a lot better coming out of it than you were going in.

With anything, exposure is the best teacher. If you want to learn, do.

Chase

Mickey's picture

Chase:

Although we've had our differences before, I readily admit this was spot on.

Nice job.

Anonymous 's picture

What does it mean when people think there's something off about you? Can you write an article about what the problem usually is in this case?

Yhaceed's picture

Dang dude!!! I think I know a couple reasons why I read your site so much now. I've been socially awkward for most of my life probably since high school. I can also play the piano but maybe you play a different instrument. Anyway I just could never figure out how people socialize. Add to that I lost about 95% of my hearing at age 19. So i can at least be social with deaf people but I haven't gotten fluent yet and still need to greatly improve my skills. I remember in high school I'd be with certain groups all the time but was never really considered a friend and I could never contribute my 2 cents to the conversation at least, probably why I wasn't much of a friend. I loved listening but I didn't know what to say and when I did say something the conversation would stop and it was like we just couldn't move forward or maybe a question was answered or something but then there was this abrupt halt. When I would talk people one on one it wasn't much better especially girls. I could ask a lot of questions but of course you only get one word answers and the conversation never really went anywhere and there's only so many questions you can ask and you don't wanna hear "you ask a lot questions". So I stopped doing that so much. Ive been lucky to have a few girlfriends but our conversation has never been very strong. Otherwise I'm sure things would have turned out much different with each of them. Now it's hard to be in groups because they can't slow down to tell me what's being said. And things go nowhere fast if they try and talk extra slow as if I'm dumb. Usually that's only with people who don't know me though. However I have on occasion been lucky and somehow I was able to easily talk to people but even then it's not like they'll invite me to parties and we'll hang out a lot. I remember one time I hit it off with this girl (I could hear at the time) and then I got her phone number , quickly found out she had a boyfriend , but I couldn't talk to her over the phone. Sure I was down because she had a boyfriend but I had no idea what to talk about except a few things. What's worse is her sister told me she "loved" me and then gave me her phone number. After a few phone calls I have no idea what changed in her mind if anything and we never got anywhere after that. Anyway it seems to me my health has a lot to do with how social I can be because literally there have been a few times my mood changes and I'm thinking a lot faster or something(like my brain is on drugs yet not unless it's caffeine) and I'm able to interact differently with people. so I'm working on it but that's been coming along slow. It's too bad I can't get the same results just drinking coffee all the time. I had no idea (except that I'm an optimistic kind of person) that there was real hope. Thanks for your story.

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