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Sometimes, you’ll have met a girl and be talking with
her, or you’ll
be on a date with her, and you’re at that point with things where you
would (normally) move to the next step.
Only, you try to go to that next step with her, but she’s not going.
She’s not ready for the courtship or the seduction to escalate to the next stage, and, thus, refuses.
Maybe you’re having a great conversation with her at the bar, and you suggest the two of you grab seats. Nah, she says, she’s got to stay at the bar.
Perhaps you’ve had a wonderful conversation on a date with her, and you want to take her home. Only, you make the invite, and she tells you she’d rather spend some more time at the café you’re at.
Or, you’ve met this girl on the street and walked all over town with her, but she simply won’t grab food with you or accompany you anywhere else... even though it feels like she ought to be ready to.
What do you do when it’s time to escalate... but she’s not ready?
Comments
Teasing her
I really liked this article. It touched on some key points that you don't see elsewhere.
Acknowledging and respecting the fact that girls have different tendencies, ie. "The Cautious Type" and "The Indecisive Type" is key to getting her to chase you. Many guys would see this as an obstacle, but you talk about how to use these "hardcase" personality types to your advantage.
Although, I didn't agree with the spitball-ideas strategy. I think a better strategy to get her to follow your lead would be to spike her 'buying temperature' (her feelings of attraction) and then, if she's being a little stubborn, take baby steps to get her to where you want her to go, instead of trying to get her to commit to something big like leaving the venue or going back to your place.
We all know that teasing girls the right way is a great way to spike her 'buying temperature'. I wrote an article on it here: http://www.mostbadass.com/tease-her-like-this/
Awesome article though, man. Plenty of valuable info in here.
Back Off and Spike BT vs. Push Forward
Jake-
Cheers for the thoughts.
We might have different styles, or we might be talking about different points in the seduction.
It’s been my experience that, personally, when you’re at an escalation point but she will not escalate, you have to get movement of some sort… or your goose is cooked.
I’m familiar with the “back off and pump her BT” advice… it was always the recommended course when I was studying pickup back in the day and you had a girl being difficult. I’m with you for when you’re the one jumping the gun (though that was not my intended focus here); when she is at that point where it’s an escalation point but she resists escalation, however, I’ve long found backing off closes the window, often never to reopen, no matter how much (nor how well) you tease, banter, play around, etc.
That comes from a lot of years going, “Hmm, it’s an escalation point, but she’s not escalating… I guess I just need to attract her more!” only to find after another 20 or 30 minutes (or 2 or 3 hours even) of flirting she’s even farther from wanting to go home than she was before.
I suppose I’d boil this one down to: “Did you correctly identify the window, or not?”
If you did, forge ahead and find a way to get things moving. If you didn’t, and jumped the gun, you probably need to spend more time flirting/playing/deep diving/chase framing, or what you’d call “spiking BT.”
Chase
I can't get a good reading
What would you recommend be done when an escalation window is missed in a school environment /there's this girl that acts cold and aloof around me and when asked about me would say stuff like "I don't care" but I don't feel like this should be taken at face value cuz I feel like there's more to it , how I should I approach this girl ?? Also thanks for all you and the team do I have major respect for this site!
Auto-Rejection
Tennant-
I’d meet new girls, and trust this one to handle itself once she’s seen me with enough of said girls ;)
Chase
Another question
Is there anything that can be done when their attraction expires??
Attraction, Expired
Tennant-
You replace them:
I Don’t Chase 'Em, I Replace 'Em
Funny thing about girls: as soon as you've replaced them and legitimately moved on, they have a way of getting interested in you again.
Women... always bored with the men who want them (unless those men move fast with them), and enamored with the ones who don't (yet whom other women want). Funny creatures, eh?
Chase
From an emotional man…
Thank you Chase - I liked this article very much because I think it describes me. It touched upon a psychological transition I am undergoing right now. Around this time last year, I felt as though I had come face to face with the chasm that divides men and women, and for some odd reason, it terrified me beyond belief. Most people know and say that women are the more emotional creatures, but that is only the case on a superficial level: women mood swing like the tide of the ocean on a daily basis. Men (like me) can be FAR more emotional than women in ways that are deeply masculine: like the depth of the Pacific Ocean - what am I doing with my life that means anything beyond the mere practical?
Personally, I am both lucky and cursed at the moment. I have brought a woman into my life with high sexual compatibility (I barely need to touch her - the near hint of animalistic kissing makes her moan and become wet right away) - I can take her for hours a session in multiple positions, and she typically begs for more. She works in the same field as I do (classical music), and therefor we can converse and connect very easily for hours. Lastly, she is overwhelmingly understanding of my male "issues." I'll go out on a limb here by stating that she came to view the new Star Wars movie with me, and she tightly held my hand through every Kylo Ren scene (sensing my own swelling of emotion from my relating to the character), from his uncontrolled smashing of machinery, to the murder of his own father - she even helped me clean up a glass table I had smashed in frustration during one of my workouts (before the movie release). In fact, she very quickly senses and responds to any mood I exude, and I actually feel more at peace thanks to her than I have in a long, long time.
There is only one catch: she is married - married to a man who, according to her, covers his own genitals whenever she tries to initiate intimacy, saying, "I need to protect myself…" She needs and deserves a man like me who has learned to sexually satisfy women, thanks GirlsChase.com. I apparently need a woman like her to lovingly ground me back to a peaceful reality. It is an interesting dynamic, and I thought I might share this story in lieu of this article about romantic/emotional men.
-M
Emotions
M-
Very nice to hear it :)
Sounds like the husband’s been burned by her straying (maybe caught an STD from her?). Thing about highly sexual women who stray is they tend to do it quite a bit.
Doesn’t mean you can’t have fun with her. Just enjoy her for what she is.
The right woman can absolutely have a calming effect, and even help you better channel your energies in the right directions. It’s remarkable how excellent suitable partners can be for your own growth as a man.
Chase
Many thanks for your thoughtful reply, Chase.
Now I feel like a goof ball because I actually meant my comment to apply to the article you wrote one previous:
Why Relationships Fall Apart, Part 1: Game-Personality Disconnect
I had never actually thought about the STD possibility, but there are some more pertinent details: her husband barely makes a sexual advance once a month (according to her, obviously) and he spends most of his time reading text books or playing video games in his free time – more or less the stereotypical Asian nerd. Both families pressure her to have children while she struggles to build her career.
Since we've started sleeping together, she has poured mountain loads of investment into me – to the sum total of $2,000 plus change – I never asked, but I couldn't turn it down given the situation. I was in a legitimately awful jam and she just handed me an envelope. I get the feeling she really has never strayed before. I have even been abundantly clear with her since before we started sleeping together that I typically sleep with numerous women (even though I really only have one other FWB at the moment).
Now I feel a tremendous moral responsibility to her at this point, but every time I try to return any amount of that money to her, she outright refuses. At 36, she says she has never been comfortable with a man in bed, let alone outright loved it, as with me. I guess good sex really can be that precious.
P.S. Thanks for reading. This relationship has been one of the best things to happen in my life in a long time: emotional calming, financial support, and frequent, raunchy sex, all in the context of an open relationship that is a secret affair – the husband takes care of her practical needs (some of them…). Of course, something this good probably cannot last, at least not in it's entirety.
-M
Chiming in with fixing the deeper issue I see there
Man, the issue I see with the dynamics here is the same I see in a good friend of mine: you're looking to girls to complete you AND to fix your issues/feelings.
My advice would be to fix your own issues first, otherwise relationships will always be mutually dependant and destructive and built on shaky foundations.
Like with destroying your own table. It's your OWN table man, don't accept from yourself that kind of behaviour.
Look for ways to control your emotions rather than someone to help you clean.
You want to be with a girl to add value to an otherwise already balanced and happy life, not a girl you can use as a fix to get over the rough times.
And I wouldn't look at troubled characters who are similar to you and feel a bond.
Look at characters you wanna be like and use them as a beacon to move towards.
All the best.
I appreciate your comments, Lux (and Chase)
Lux, I appreciate your comment and I want you to know I do take it seriously (knowing you don't have to say anything unless you really mean it).
I've actually tried therapy for several months, and it did help to a degree, but eventually the financial cost caught up with me. Additionally, I found the more I talked about my dark feelings (trying to discover their source and conquer them) the stronger they became. Finally, I came to a conclusion of a saying I had read in a short story that goes something like this: the evil inside each of us is so great that the only way to beat it is to deny it battle. In other words, stop thinking too much and get busy with positive, productive things.
The messed up part is how most of us have been raised with an erroneous sense of right and wrong when it comes to sexuality (as well as many other subjects, such as making money). One might have to work very hard to unlearn false teachings, the process of which can bring one through some very troubling emotions until the web is fully unraveled.
Through my own journey, I now know that the dark side is a very real place – a source of tremendous potential power both mentally and physically. When one feels alone or weak from abandonment yet still hungry with ambition, darkness seems the only source of strength to achieve results. The scary part is how a perfectly rational thought process can end one up in that place.
Still, another voice in my head tells me that it cannot be the only way to become strong. The dark side after all does come at both a great interpersonal and intrapersonal cost – essentially, life built upon isolation and self-loathing – hardly a model for meeting and sleeping with an abundance of women (setting aside the Byronic model, but even Chase mentioned that "the brooder" draws the least results).
The woman who helped me clean up the table has turned out to be one of the most wonderful women I have ever met, and our relationship (or more accurately, our affair) has been one of the best things that has ever happened to me. I'm not in love with her exclusively and she knows that although she seems quite in love with me. I was proud of myself when during our fifth or so time sleeping together, she screamed the words, "I'm never gonna leave you!" In that moment, all I could think was, "Chase, I did it!"
She comes over to my place once or twice a week for the most effortless and emotionally satisfying sex I have ever had. The very best part, however, is how well we get along on every other level. Like birds of a feather, we laugh and chat like two kids at heart, and no matter whatever I say, she tells me how amazed she is to meet a man who thinks just like her. She is completely supportive of everything I do and want to do with my life: I have her doing Beachbody workouts with me and we have even started learning to play Robert Kiyosaki's Cashflow board game together – all this on top of playing music.
For anyone who's actually read this far, I thank you and apologize for this being such a long read. I'm committed to personal development, and I consider this site a very important element of that for me.
Many, many thanks to the GC team!!!
-M
Thanks
Hey Chase,
I just wanted to tell you how life-changing your articles have been for me. They offer amazing advice and so many different outlooks on life while being incredibly interesting (especially those with stories about your life before college!). Thank you for your insights.
Re: Thanks
Cheers, Jack! It's nice to hear.
Chase
Childhood
Hey Chase,
Do you mind putting up an article going into depth about your middle school, high school, and college life? It'd be not only incredibly interesting but also educational to see how you came to be the person you are today.
Re: Childhood
Richard-
Well, I’m not sure how educational that would be… I was kind of an odd duck in middle school. I was legitimately extremely surprised when all the popular girls started asking me out en masse… it was very unexpected. I considered myself the biggest rebel outsider in the school then, and thought I looked like a total nerd.
It was only a decade-and-a-half later when I’d show my middle school pictures to girlfriends and have them tell me I looked very charming, or I looked like Harry Potter, or that they liked my look then better than they like my look now… lol. I somehow hit on some combination of factors that worked, as much by luck as by my desire to be different. Unfortunately, I didn’t know how to take advantage of the opportunities that got me (or perhaps fortunately… I’d have led a very different life had I been shacking up with hotties in junior high. I doubt there’d be a GirlsChase.com, for instance).
But yeah, maybe I’ll do an autobiography… someday. Everyone enjoys telling their own story, right? I’m not nearly at the point where I consider mine complete enough to write though. That’s more something you put together when your best adventures are behind you, and my life’s still getting going.
Chase
When to escalate having a girl over for dinner?
Chase-
Any recommendations on when to escalate and/or tips to get her aroused when you've had a girl over to make dinner date at your place? I had a girl over for dinner friday but I didn't escalate till after dinner, and encountered mountains of resistance, that I eventually overcame. My thinking was that if I escalated while making dinner, then it would have completely put her out of auto-pilot and the resistance would have been less.
Report: The girl was over for dinner this past Friday for dinner for a second date (where we became lovers). She seemed inexperienced, and was 28 from the philippines. The first date was an information date, and the second date I invited her out for dinner for italian food, although I never told her where the date would be. We met at a street corner, walked to the grocery store to get food and wine, then walked to my place. I thought about escalating during making dinner when we had some flirting/teasing/deep diving going on. In the end, we started hooking up after dinner and I encountered resistance to kissing, but after that it was all straight forward.
Any advice and insights are super appreciated man.
Thanks,
raysidney
Dinner Dates and Escalation
Ray-
Depends on the dynamic and how strong the connection is already. I’ve had a lot of fun having girls over to cook dinner and escalating on them while they cook, or making out with them heavily before dinner and then letting them go cook, which they do nervous with anticipation about what’s to come after. And then I’ve had dinner dates where it was our first date together and I simply waited until we were having drinks after the meal to make my first move.
You can certainly have first/second dates at your place too where she just walks in and you start kissing and moving to sex right away, as well.
Sounds like you ran yours pretty well – the timing seems about right for a first real “official” date, unless it was clearly really on during the flirting while making dinner. If you wanted to start then, you could steal a kiss, or smack her behind, or get some other playful physical touch going on while she/you cooked.
You can play around with timing more if you do a lot of dinner dates… much of it will depend on where she’s at when she first walks in the door, and where she gets to before the meal or while you’re cooking.
But yeah, seems you did fine! I wouldn’t worry too much about the resistance to kissing – most every girl has a wall somewhere, and will resist letting you scale that wall, but once you’re over it, you’re good and the rest of the escalation is straightforward. For some, that’s kissing; less conservative girls, it’s getting their bras off; less conservative still, they have no problem with bras / jeans coming off, but the panties provoke a fight; and a few girls will get totally naked with you easily but resist sex. Sounds like for your girl it was the kiss, which you’ll often find is the case with Asian / South Pacific women… once you’re past the kiss, the clothes just fly off.
Chase
Wit
Chase, how exactly can I develop a good wit and sense of humor? Lately, for some unknown reason, I've been unable to make any jokes, and I tend to bring down lighter conversations. A lot of the example conversations you put in your articles always make me crack at least a smile. Can you make an article for how you're able to do this?
Re: Wit
JS-
An article on humor's been on my topics list for a long time (3 or 4 years at least); I just always put it off because I know it'll be a massive, and tricky, piece to write up. Maybe I'll do it as a series though.
Best advice for developing humor though: pick a few TV shows or comedy shows you like and watch them. Especially during monologues. I read something about a comedian recently learning humor by listening to audio records of humor routines - he just wanted to hear the humor, didn't want to see the video.
Once you start picking up on patterns, try and script out some humor and use it the next day during your daily routine. The goal is just to get comfortable coming up with stuff others find funny (stories or remarks), and getting the timing and delivery right. Then once you've got that, you can start working on spontaneity after.
Chase
i have a habit of bringing up
i have a habit of bringing up people in down position. Like if someone is being bullied i would side with the weak everytime and encourage them to stand up for themselves. This happens sometimes in college. What is your opinion on it? How does it make you look if you are facing off against people high on social ladder to help the weak?
Thanks for all your content.
Defending the Weak
Robin-
Nice choice of username!
I've done some of that in the past. Though not always. I think it's important to be mindful of whom you're defending and why.
Sometimes it's good to defend the downtrodden, particularly if they're being needlessly bullied. If you do it in a cool way, it can even up your own social status and make you look like a leader. e.g.:
Bully: Haha, John shaved his head, what a LOSER!
Robin: Actually, I think it looks pretty cool. That's a good look on you, John.
John: Thanks!
Robin: [changing the topic] Hey, so did you guys see that...
This is mainly when the bully is being socially unintelligent and clearly doing it to try and climb the social ladder.
However, if the weak person is being bullied because he's super annoying, or a clear social liability in some other way, you've got to be more careful, lest you associate yourself with the socially maladjusted. For instance:
Joe: Man, Fred gets into some long-winded, boring stories.
Robin: I like Fred's stories. Fred, you should stand up for yourself.
Girl 1: No, Robin, really, Fred's stories are horrible.
Girl 2: They really are.
Anything where the victim is clearly bad and the "bully" is clearly being mild or just pointing something everyone else agrees on out risks encouraging folks to pile on you if you try to defend the awkward guy.
Worse still, socially awkward people often do not recognize or appreciate that you've defended them. If someone's awkward enough to keep making faux pas without recognizing and adjusting, odds are he's not aware enough to realize others don't like him and you're defending him. So you can end up not helping him, while turning others against you.
In the case of a guy like Fred, it's usually better to advise the group:
Joe: Man, Fred gets into some long-winded, boring stories.
Robin: He means well. I think he's just not very socially aware.
In this case, instead of giving the awkward guy advice he won't listen to, you help the group understand the awkward guy better and reduce the amount of "Man, Fred's a weirdo" stuff they send his way.
Chase
Chase,
Chase,
Excellent article! Unfortunate thing is I ran into it a week too late. I think I literally came into the internal debate resistance with a girl a few weeks ago, but I wanted your confirmation on my suspicions.
About 3 weeks ago, I went out with a few friends and we went to a low key lounge type environment. That's where we met up with one of my friend's college mates (i've met them all before, especially one I had the hots for). I spent some time throughout the night talking to all of them, and once it started getting late most of them left except for the girl I had the hots for.
Now at the time I knew the girl broke up with her boyfriend about 3-4 months ago, and she was single. In my head it was time to strike, so I told her to come sit with me on a couch by the side of the lounge and she complied. We sat and talked for a bit and she asked me if I wanted to have a thumb war. Long story short, we started making out in the lounge for a good 15 mins, then i asked her if she wanted to leave and she was ready. I knew I had to escalate with her some more, so I told her we should walk for a bit before we got a cab back to her sisters house (she told me she was staying there for the night). My place was too far from the lounge and her sisters place was relatively close by. We made out some more on a quiet street corner, and behind a building and I tried escalating more but she wasnt biting.
Eventually, we got a cab back to her sisters place and I got out with her. We got to the front door and she thanked my for the night. I could tell by her expression she was expecting me to get back in the cab and leave, but I walked her inside and we started making out more at the front of her sister's apartment (it was a secluded area so no one could see us). I could tell she was resisting since her hands were uptight against me, so I grabbed them and put them against the wall and put her against the wall. She didnt stop kissing me, so i escalated more by lifting her leg up but she put her hands uptight against me. I kept trying to go further but I could tell something was up and she wasnt going for it. I asked her what was up and she said she was worried about her sister (she wanst home at the time). I assured her that she was fine and I kept trying to escalate but still nothing. Eventually I cut my loses and grabbed her number and we agreed to meet up again.
3 weeks later we met up, but it was a double date. I asked her out 2 times before but she was busy and she proposed a double date so I figured she would feel more comfortable in that kind of environment. In the end, it didnt work out the way I wanted (I couldnt physically escalate on the date since it was a double date, we didnt talk as much as we shouldve, etc..). At the end of the date I asked her if she wanted to walk around for a bit before we call it a night but she said she was tired and she had to work the next day- it was 11 pm on a weekday so she wasnt lying. I pushed a little more but she still wouldnt agree. She agreed to drive me home, we talked a lot in the car but before I left we made out for a good 5 mins in her car but there she was resisting again. I tried escalating in her car but she wouldnt go past making out so I knew there was no point inviting her to my place (especially with parents home).
Recently I asked her out so I could push through that last 5%. Unfortunately she messaged me back saying that she's been seeing someone for a while and things might be getting serious and asked me if it would be ok if we could be friends (aka friend zone). So basically there goes that opportunity.
My suspicion is that it is the return of the ex-boyfriend and that's why she was resisting my persistence (as in her mind there may be a chance in her mind they'll get back together and go through the on-off cycle that almost every couple tries and fails). My question to you is what could I have done better do get through the resistance, and do you think my suspicions are correct?
Apologies on the long documentary
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