Too much, too fast,, now it's gone.. What next??

Ktowndub

Space Monkey
space monkey
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I recently posted on here of a new relationship that I was on the verge of jumping into, titled... "Things going way too good, only a matter of time before I drive the wheels off and crash hard",,, well,, we've hit a skid.. Anyone with some advice and input is greatly appreciated..

Just a quick summary of what's going on... Met a girl almost a year ago. I was dating her friend, she was dating someone else, yada ya... Recently, I asked her out, and we went out,, and immediately hit it off.. In all honesty, we clicked waaayyy too good.. Only difference, I am in my mid 30s and she is 26, but we really hit it off.. In fact, it amazed me just how much we really had in common.. We were seeing way too much of each other and I had brought it to her attention a couple of times, telling her that it was unhealthy, just how much time we were spending together. The other day we spent 2 nights in a row together and I was off work the next day.. We slept in and watched a couple of movies and then decided to get out and go do something.. I told her "if you have something else to go do, then go ahead.. It's not gonna hurt my feelings." She replied saying, "what am I gonna do?" So we went out for food and had a couple drinks.. As the night progressed, she had an old friend that was texting her. They had once gone out, & had plans to go out this Saturday when he got back in town. I didn't have a problem with it at all, but then as we continued with drinks (you can see the problem is about to surface), the guy was texting her to confirm the date. Just before that happened we were talking about dating other people. She told me that she didn't mind if I went out with someone else, that she just didn't want to know about it. Then... It happened.. I watched her confirm the date right in front of me, which I didn't appreciate and so we started talking about it.. I then told her,, "I'm not about to ask you not to go out with this guy, because you have every right to, but I would like to ask you that if the night gets late and you are about to get intimate, to use your head and maybe hold off on being intimate with him until we figure out what' we are doing." She said that she could not promise me that she wouldn't be intimate. I then told her, I appreciate her honesty but that was just too much for me. The whole time, we wee discussing this like a normal conversation, but you could feel that everything had just changed.. We get back to my house and then the guy is still texting her so I simply said "Look, I see where this is going, how bout you tell whoever you are texting that you will call them in the morning, and let me have you tonight." She looked at me, put the phone down and headed to the bedroom. Then, we had the best sex ever.. As if we both knew this was the last time.. Morning came and I kissed her bye, stopped and looked back at her while she was sleeping and knew it would be the last I saw of her. I messaged a friend telling him that I thought that would be the last night I saw her. I never reached out to her that day and when I got home, she had left me a note saying "you are so sweet. We need to spend time away from each other. This is too much, too fast. Text me if you want." We haven't been in touch since.. Last week she was telling me that I was driving her crazy, how strong her infatuation is for me, many other discussions portraying us being together, but when I expressed that I would not be happy about her being intimate with another man, it all changed. I had gotten her something for Christmas, nothing big just something simple and she is going out of town on Tuesday for a week. Do I just not reach out at all, or maybe reach out on Monday? She left a couple things at my house.. I thought of waiting until Monday, reaching out telling her that she had left a few things at my house, to come get them.. Or do I just let it go and learn from it?? What's my next move here??
 

ProblemSolving

Tribal Elder
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Ktowndub said:
"Things going way too good, only a matter of time before I drive the wheels off and crash hard",,, well,, we've hit a skid.. Anyone with some advice and input is greatly appreciated..

It is good that you realize that you must be the driver of this "Relationship Car", so if it crashes, you know the blame is largely on you. Let's see what went wrong:

Ktowndub said:
We were seeing way too much of each other and I had brought it to her attention a couple of times, telling her that it was unhealthy, just how much time we were spending together. The other day we spent 2 nights in a row together and I was off work the next day.. We slept in and watched a couple of movies and then decided to get out and go do something.. I told her "if you have something else to go do, then go ahead.. It's not gonna hurt my feelings." She replied saying, "what am I gonna do?"

Remember, you are the driver, you decide how much you see of each other. There's no need for you to get her permission to see less of her. When you see too much of a girl, your attention, affection, and sex, lose a lot of their value.

For example, say your favorite food is steak, but you start eating it for ever meal of the day, and soon you get sick of it. After a few days, you can't wait to eat something new. It went from your favorite food to the bottom of the list, the steak lost all of its value because it was way too attainable.

Now what if instead of eating it everyday, you only ate steak once or twice a week? What would happen? You would cherish and look forward to those days that you get to eat your favorite food. "Saturday's steak night! Yay!"

This is what happened with your girl. Your attention, affection, and sex lost value to her because it was so readily available, so she went looking to get it from someone else.

Ktowndub said:
As the night progressed, she had an old friend that was texting her. They had once gone out, & had plans to go out this Saturday when he got back in town. I didn't have a problem with it at all, but then as we continued with drinks (you can see the problem is about to surface), the guy was texting her to confirm the date.

This guy likely wouldn't even register on her radar had you kept yourself a scarce and valuable resource.

Ktowndub said:
She told me that she didn't mind if I went out with someone else, that she just didn't want to know about it.

Your response should have been, "Great!". Then you should have found some new girls to date ASAP. Instead you got emotional and started chasing even more than usual which only reinforces her desire for someone else.

Ktowndub said:
she had left me a note saying "you are so sweet. We need to spend time away from each other. This is too much, too fast. Text me if you want."

This is what happens when you chase. Remember, YOU need to be in control of the car or the car crashes.

Ktowndub said:
Do I just not reach out at all, or maybe reach out on Monday? She left a couple things at my house.. I thought of waiting until Monday, reaching out telling her that she had left a few things at my house, to come get them.. Or do I just let it go and learn from it?? What's my next move here??

No, do not reach out at all. The reason why she went looking for a new guy is because of way too much reaching out. Learn from this. If she contacts you again, don't be upset and emotional, but it's time to find new girls where you can control the relationship from the start.

Chase and Ricardus have amazing articles on relationships that will help you avoid making these mistakes again, so get reading player! :)
 

Drck

Cro-Magnon Man
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Hey Ktowndub, there is lots of stuff to comment on, from general understanding of girls to this one specific... ProblemSolving comented with some great points, e.g. you don't want to see her too much so you keep your value high and so on. I'll coment on some, hopfully it will make sense:

"and immediately hit it off.. In all honesty, we clicked waaayyy too good.. Only difference, I am in my mid 30s and she is 26, but we really hit it off.."
>>>> Not sure about other guys, but my experience is that you can have great vibes with girls, you can have all the great feelings - while at the same time she doesn't really feel the same. Generally speaking, a girl can have a great vibes with a guy but at the same time she may not really be attracted enough to him. Girls are simply great at vibing with many different guys

"I told her "if you have something else to go do, then go ahead.. It's not gonna hurt my feelings."
>>>> Generally, you don't want to talk or express too many feelings for her. Keep her guessing, this will make her work hard (assuming that she is interested). You want to work on being less reactive, perhaps emotionally distant.

"Just before that happened we were talking about dating other people."
>>>> This should be rather interpreted in context, but in general, if the girl likes you and want to be with you, she would talk about two people being together. Talking about each of you dating other people may be a hint about "splitting". No good, she is moving away from you.

"I then told her,, "I'm not about to ask you not to go out with this guy, because you have every right to, but I would like to ask you that if the night gets late and you are about to get intimate, to use your head and maybe hold off on being intimate with him until we figure out what' we are doing"
>>>> Here you sound quite needy and insecure. She is an adult, and if she wants to go out and sleep with other men she will do it regardless what you want. It is actually not her head (logic) that will decide whether she will sleep with another guy, but her emotions. You attempted to convince her by playing on her logic, but she knows she will act according to her emotions. She then, by telling you she can't promise it, she is actually making it clear that you and her are not really "together". She is still looking around and leaving her options open. Which is not good

"I never reached out to her that day and when I got home"
>>>> Great job, not chasing

"she had left me a note saying "you are so sweet. We need to spend time away from each other. This is too much, too fast. Text me if you want."
>>>> Spending time away from each other obviously means she is moving "away" from you. No good. "Text me if you want" ... but what does she want? If she wants she will text you or contact you. Don't chase her, don't text her.

"Last week she was telling me that I was driving her crazy, how strong her infatuation is for me, many other discussions portraying us being together"
>>>> Girls are moody, their emotions change. She wasn't lying last week, but since that her mood changed. This week she sees it differently. There is no 'logic' in emotions. As you know guys are more logical while girls are more emotional. She always goes by her emotions, not logic.

"but when I expressed that I would not be happy about her being intimate with another man, it all changed"
>>>> Yes, because you expressed yourself as insecure, needy. Would classical Alpha male or a guy who has lots of girls worry about whether she goes out with another men? Nope, he doesn't give a damn because he's got plenty of other girls. As a matter of fact, he doesn't even notice that she is gone...

"Do I just not reach out at all, or maybe reach out on Monday? She left a couple things at my house."
>>>> No, don't reach out. She left things at your house and she knows it. Most likely she will come back for them. You'll see her then, see how she acts.

Yes, let it go and learn as much as you can. You did nothing wrong, you want a girl and you setup fair boundaries with her. She like(d) you a lot but she doesn't want to cave in into your way of life. Which is fine, let her go and look for another girls.

I have no idea whether that girl will come back or not. I've seen quite intersting things happening before, so my best guess is that she is gone, but I wouldn't be surpriced if she comes back. Maybe not this week or next week, maybe even in couple of months... You shoudn't obviously wait for her, you should move on with other girls...

Next time (in general) try to be more scarce, keep your value high. See her 1-2x a week at first to keep the tension high. Make yourself busy the other days, you simply don't have time for her because you have your life. This will keep her highly interested in you because she will have to find out what or who is more important than her, what is more important than sex with her... See, if you drop everything in your life and spend all the time together with her, and get all emotional, it tells her that she is too important to you. It tells her that she is #1 in your life. Which is really great in romantic movies, but in real life it doesn't work. She doesn't really want to be your #1. In real life she should be #2, if not #3.... Remember, she could care less about all the great guys who treat her well and nice, she dumps them left and right without any regrets, they have no value for her. But once she meets a guy, who is prehaps more of an asshole and who doesn't give a damn about her, she is all over him, and she can never get enough...

There is actually a great trick to it: Work on Abundance Mentality. Go out and see more girls, date more girls. This way you won't even notice that you don't have time for one particular girl. You will solve most of the difficulties with Abundance Mentality - you will have more choices, you will be less clingly, you will be more scarce and more independent, you will be less emotional with one girl, you won't care much about rejections and so on.

Hope it helps
 

Ktowndub

Space Monkey
space monkey
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Great advice and breakdowns from both replies.. When I go back and read thru it, I see it so much more different. I understand what went wrong now. I played everything right up until I had her around me all the time. Then, regardless of what she wanted or how available she was, I should've spent more energy staying away from her.. I have a tendency to follow similar patterns.. I find a cool ass chic, & I can do all the right things at first, but once a girl gets close enough to U, they know how to break U down and get U to lower ur guard slightly.. Once u do, it's done. She figured U out and she's gone.. Or, that's been my experience..
Here's an update and could use a little advice on how to handle this if u don't mind.. I haven't talked to the girl since I left for work Friday morning, coming home to that "note" that evening.. Late last night, I caved and sent her a message, explaining that she had left a couple things and wanted to see if I should drop them off, or meet up somewhere to give them to her. She initially acted as she would be busy packing for her trip, so I didn't respond, but then she sent another text saying "ok." I still never responded.. I anticipate that she will swing by here after I get off work this evening. I will give her the things she left and the gift I had gotten her (just a small prayer medal, nothing big).. Any advice for this meeting today?? She leaves in the morning for a week. I would like to continue kickin it with this girl, yet not be as invested as I started to let myself be..
Any advice would be appreciated.. Thanks
 

ProblemSolving

Tribal Elder
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Ktowndub said:
I understand what went wrong now.

We'll see about that haha!

Ktowndub said:
Late last night, I caved and sent her a message, explaining that she had left a couple things and wanted to see if I should drop them off, or meet up somewhere to give them to her.

C'mon man. We told you not to do it, but you did it anyway. You do realize the reason why she left was because you couldn't control your emotions. It's like saying, "Okay, I know she left because I was chasing her...I know what will get her back...more chasing!"

She should be the one blowing up your phone to come see you, not the other way around.

Ktowndub said:
Any advice for this meeting today?? She leaves in the morning for a week. I would like to continue kickin it with this girl, yet not be as invested as I started to let myself be..
Any advice would be appreciated.. Thanks

Don't give her any gifts, no matter how small. You don't reward girls for running away from you, you reward them for chasing you. Don't try to get this one back, the damage is done. Find some new girls to date, so you get some abundance and are better able to control your emotions in your next relationship.

Reading all the Relationship articles by Chase and Ricardus will help you understand why and how to run a relationship properly, so you can keep a girl for as long as you want her, BUT it'll be useless if you don't have the emotional control to execute their recommendations.
 

Drck

Cro-Magnon Man
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It depends how you look at it, but it is really a "game". Game with your feelings, game with your patience, game with your frame...

With girls you need lots of patience. If you are too fast, you will lose her. If you are too slow, you will also lose her. You just have to find the right balance.

Don't worry, most guys do exactly as you described. That is actually the reason why most guys are having such a hard time getting laid and keeping good girls - we get impatient, we over-react, we get too emotional, we get too attached...

As far as dating and relationship "game", girls are naturally far ahead than guys. I honestly believe that they are 10x smarter than guys as far as relationships, for example, what I have learned in 1-2 years I can describe/summarize in couple of minutes, and the girl "gets" it on the spot. She just understands, and she can fairly easily expand that knowledge. Giving it a short period of time, most could probably beat me in this game anyway. With guys it is different. Guys are very ridgid, they just have their own way to deal with it, and it just takes time not only to understand but more importantly do it that way. For guys it is not really a problem to understand; the problem is to behave that way because they can't control their emotions... For guys it is quite easy to control logic, but not emotions. For girls it is the other way...

It might be much easier if you simply accept that girls are much smarter in this area. They literaly look at guy's behavior and within minutes, perhaps seconds they "scan" him, and they are able to read his personality just by the way the guy stands, looks, talks, moves, interacts with others.... They (most likely) decide right then if they will give him a chance to have sex or not. They basically have huge advantage over average/un-educated guy. Say 80-90% of guys are like that.

But here comes educated guy, a guy who reads about seduction, a guy who reads GC. Guy like you, me, or other guys on GC or similar sites. By increasing your knowledge you are tremendously increasing your potential, now you have great weapons to win the game...

For example, you (should) know that fundamentals are tremendous in seduction. That is just the base, fundamentals is simply #1 in seduction. You work on fundamentals - and might take some time - but your attraction will skyrocket. Girls will "scan" you again, yet now they will read something else than in average guy. Now they will see quite attractive and sexy guy, and most will want to give you a chance to have sex with them...

Which is great, and having a "chance" itself might get you laid often, but there is still lots of other stuff to learn. For instance, dominance. A girl that discovered that you are attractive rather expects you to be dominant, leading. She wants you to make decisions and take responsibility of where the sex might happen. So you have to lead, you have to setup time and place where it could happen...

Another important thing is independence. You should learn to be happy with your life - regardless whether you are with some girl or not. Usually guys are only happy when they are with some girl, and they get depressed if they are not with any girl or if they get dumped. Because she makes them so happy they get clingy, they get too attached, they depend too much on her... They want to keep her because she makes them really happy, so they put her on a pedestal. They chase her, they try to prove to her that they worth it just so she stays around.... They think they are doing good because they don't understand the game but the reality is, that the more they try the further she runs. The more they call her and the more they text her, the more time they want to spent with her, the further she runs.... The "game" is simply to stop trying, stop chasing. Stop calling, stop texting. Let her go... Sometimes she comes back. Other times not...

Patience is another good one. You are a guy and you obviously like her, so logically you want to be with her every day, all day long. That is your logic. But remember, women don't go by logic, they go by emotions. If you are seeing her too much she gets tired of you. If you don't see her at all, well, she will forget all about you. But if you see her, just here and there, perhaps just 1-2 times per week, at least for the first couple of weeks or months, and you will always make her feel great - she will want more and more. Why wouldn't she want to be around a guy who makes her feel good, who has his life and is quite happy with it, who likes her a lot - yet who is not too clingy, too needy, too attached to her? Who is very much independent and can walk away from her with no emotional drama? There are not too many guys like that. If she is normal girl she would love to meet at least one guy like that...

Also remember your frame, your role. You are almost 10 years older than she is. She is relatively young, she probably dated couple guys of her age, but when she meets and sleeps with a guy who is 10 years older she kinds of assumes that he is more mature than she is. She wants to "collapse" into your frame, not the other way. You should be on leading position by default - you are older, wiser, have more life experiences, you are a man and so on. She should be "looking up to you", and you should be perceiving her as just silly, cute and sexy girl... That should be your natural frame.

So, there is really no advice on what to do with this particular girl, the general advice is to stop trying, stop chasing... Let things go its own way, it might work out or it might not... By reading GC you have a huge knowledge, you have huge weapons to eventually win the "game"...

Hope it helps
 

Ktowndub

Space Monkey
space monkey
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Messages
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Hey, thanks for taking the time to respond with all of that. Here is an update now.. Keep in mind, I am just now reading the responses so yes I did screw up and meet with her to give her the gift I had gotten her, before she left out of town. And in all seriousness, it was not a big elaborate gift, it was a prayer medal of St Jude. However; I kept the meeting short. Initially, she was in a big rush and just before I got there she messaged me saying that her schedule had altered and she has more free time. Regardless, I met with her for 2-3 minutes, tops & told her I had to go. She started messaging me about 10 minutes later thanking me.. She actually kept messaging me all night, talking about it. I would keep the messages short and I would end the convo.. The gift went over very well, with her flirting the rest of the night and talking about getting together for dinner when she returns (said she would cook). I didn't respond to her last text. She messaged me a few times today during her flight exchanges, and I wished her a safe flight prior to her last connecting flight. That was the last of our communication. I have read so many of these articles on this board and there is so much useful information, but the problem that I have is I don't like thinking that just making one simple mistake in trying to control the tempo of the relationship and making sure that I stay as the lead, can screw up the opportunity with any one specific girl. If in fact that the girl wants the man to lead, then should t there be a way to reverse the one mistake, if you were able to do damage control, retreat, give the girl space, take space on ur own, somehow re spark the interest and then assume control all over.
What I mean is that like in this situation. I never had an argument with this girl. We just spent too much time together within a short timespan. I approached this girl right, set up the date, didn't text her or call her to confirm for 3 days, & then she started texting me the day of the first date asking questions. Awesome date, took her back to my house, had great sex, and did not communicate much the next day or any day after, except for a text in the morning responding to hers after she would leave and then maybe a text in the evening saying, "Meet me for dinner?" Or "come help me with this bottle of Cab that I just opened." I never asked for any dates, I would send a simple message saying "what" & "when" and then we'd meet up. We had a phenomenal time, great sex 9 nights in 2 1/2 weeks.. We clicked great. Then we spent 3 nights together, knowing we shouldn't, and I think it got real and hit us both,, "what are we doing?" I felt it and so did she. So I didn't text her all day, come home to a note saying we need time apart, and we went the next 3 days with no communication. I was never mad, neither was she. But; everyone says, get rid of this one, she's gone. I would like to think that if we are supposed to be able to control and lead, then surely there are circumstances in which U do allow time and space, and then U reapproach, re gain the control and lead, only this time,, you don't screw it up. I would like to see a column on that , maybe called "The Mulligan" or "The Reapproach" or whatever... After giving this girl this gift, her interest re sparked,, which she didn't open it in front of me. She even sent me a message out of the blue saying "Your such an asshole for being so nice" "That was really not what I was expecting" "That was so cool and so very thoughtful." Then she text me all night,, again this morning, so, now.. If I want my mulligan,, how do I re approach this and stay in control, so not to mess this up again,, making sure to implement all the great methods on GC..
 

Drck

Cro-Magnon Man
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The bad news is, that if she is not attracted to you no matter how good you are in seduction she will not stay with you no matter what. In other words, you can do everything perfect and she will be gone anyway.

The great news is, if she is attracted to you she will forgive you lots of mistakes. So keep the general guidance that you find on GC and don't worry about making mistakes here and there, there is no need to micromanage everything that you do in relationship. We are people, and if she is normal and likes you, she will find the way to make it work out.

I think you worry too much what will happen, you are getting too anxious about screwing things up... Relax, let go, she doesn't expect you to be perfect seducer, a guy who does everything right... Chances are that if you do too much and everything too perfect, she will be gone just because it is just not natural for guy to know so much about that stuff.

It takes two for the relationship to work out, just do your best on your part, and let her worry about the rest. She needs to invest a lot of her own effort in order for the relationship to work out, and that is out of your hands, you can't make her do it. If you are utilizing some of the stuff you read on GC you are already doing much better than other guys, and she feels it. So give her some space, avoid being clingy and needy, don't chase, have some patience, try to be in charge and leading, and you will be good... She is texting you a lot, so she is still interested.

Hope it helps, let us know how are you doing with this girl :)
 

ProblemSolving

Tribal Elder
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Ktowndub said:
Initially, she was in a big rush and just before I got there she messaged me saying that her schedule had altered and she has more free time. Regardless, I met with her for 2-3 minutes, tops & told her I had to go.

Well done! You're learning now. Let's see what happens when you're not chasing anymore:

Ktowndub said:
She started messaging me about 10 minutes later thanking me.. She actually kept messaging me all night, talking about it. I would keep the messages short and I would end the convo..

Now she's chasing. See how that works? Remember to not get caught up in texting back and forth. Set up the meet, then get off the phone.

Ktowndub said:
If in fact that the girl wants the man to lead, then should t there be a way to reverse the one mistake,

Every woman wants to be in control of the relationship, however, if you give her control, her attraction for you will plummet and she will look for other men whom she can't control.

Ktowndub said:
So I didn't text her all day, come home to a note saying we need time apart, and we went the next 3 days with no communication. I was never mad, neither was she. But; everyone says, get rid of this one, she's gone. I would like to think that if we are supposed to be able to control and lead, then surely there are circumstances in which U do allow time and space, and then U reapproach, re gain the control and lead, only this time,, you don't screw it up.

The reason why I recommended moving on to the next one is because early on in a relationship you haven't set a long precedent of being a strong man, so any weakness that you do show will be magnified. Which is why she more than likely hooked up with the guy she was texting.

If you already had some girls you were hooking up with regularly, then you and this girl would be on equal footing, so you could possibly reel this one back in. As it stands now, she has sexual options and is exploring them, while you are not.


Ktowndub said:
After giving this girl this gift, her interest re sparked,, which she didn't open it in front of me. She even sent me a message out of the blue saying "Your such an asshole for being so nice"

The gift was a mistake. Beware of "Reactions vs Results". Being nice makes her feel warm and fuzzy, but it dries her pussy faster than a Maxi Pad. Much better to hear, "You're such an asshole lol", than, "You're so nice".

Keep on reading man, what you learn in those articles will change your relationships with women for the rest of your life.
 

Ktowndub

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
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Great stuff guys.. I do understand what ur saying about showing weakness in the front, but there has to be a way that U can correct this situation once u slip. I partly understand about the gift being a mistake, but there is a background to this that did make sense,, or at least it did to me. In my opinion, and not being biased, I think this was the one time that maybe this did help. She was on her way out of town and ready to move on, but there is a story that goes with the gift in which she found it touching and the reaction was good. Now, how I react to her reaction is crucial, I get that. But I am going to keep working this girl and noting what I've done in case I can flip this one. Update... I still haven't had communication with her since she was at atlanta airport bout to board on her last connecting.. I get that she is with family now, & so obviously, I won't chase like her other orbiters.. Now, tomorrow is Christmas.. I know that everyone will tell me not to wish her a merry Christmas, but is that really right or is there a way that I can do that and then go quiet again and wait until she reaches out,,, or do I need to just wait and see if she does, and if she doesn't, she doesn't?? I still think this girl is obtainable, & to be honest, I want that.. I can't tell u guys how much I appreciate ur involvement in this now, & I will def keep U updated to show what and where I either flip this or not. I love the comment on. "If I had other sex options, etc.." That is soo true, but Currently, I dont,, but I can find it, I just try to cherry pick.. U guys are great and I love the input.. Please keep advising.. Tell me, what would u do to try to regain this...
 

ray_zorse

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Just to get this clear one mistake absolutely can end things (otherwise I'd be getting a lot more sex than I am now), also most mistakes the damage is done, once a frame is set (you being needy and insecure for instance) it takes literally years to change that frame. For instance no matter how dominant and outcome-independent you act now she'll just think "haha wonder how long that will last" and wait for you to reset to what she perceives as your default. Thus she wouldn't have any difficulty deflecting your dominance and seeking to make you jealous again, whereas this wouldn't occur to her if the needy, insecure frame hadn't been set. The good news is there are literally billions of girls you haven't yet met :)
cheers, Ray
 

Drck

Cro-Magnon Man
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I know what you are saying, but you have to think about what frame you are setting. Many times things can mysteriously correct themselves, you don't have to do anything. Sometimes the more you are trying to correct the more damage you do, and it is simply because you are chasing.

Most likely you think that this relationship is in your hands, that you can do XYZ and she will change her mind and come back to you. IMO it is incorrect thinking. She has her own mind, and it is only up to her if she wants to participate, and she will decide based on her felings. You can't flip her mind, and if you are chasing you are making her feelings about you negative.

You have to be willing to let her go. If you can't do it you are in chasing mode, and as you (should) know that is very wrong.

You feel obligated to send her "Merry Christmas", I get it, you think you are doing good, you are being nice, you think you are 'fixing' things. But you know, she can do exactly the same, it takes only 10 seconds to send such message. So again, don't do it, you are only chasing. You have to show her that you are willing to let her go. Remember, she knows exactly what you are thinking, she can "read" you, and she is 10x smarter than you as far as relationships. By chasing her you are only remaining in the same frame like before, you are showing immaturity, neediness and clinginess. You know where that frame got you. She could expect those things from guys who are her age, but again - you are 10 years older... To you she should just be silly, cute, sexy, and perhaps not so important girl in your life...

The "game" works. Once I was after a hot girl at work, I wanted to get her attention, I was always around although I tried to mask it as much as I could, and make it seem just like a coincidence. She obviously knew it because - again - she is ALWAYS 10x smarter than you. So she was constantly hanging around with this guy, I just couldn't stand it. But I knew the game, I knew that I can't show any reactions, just remain neutral, with "who cares" attitude. So one day she was supposed to be alone, the other guy wasn't working that day. She knew that I like her, and she invited me to go work along with her side, together, perhaps for several hours. She gave me a chance.

Now, not knowing any "game", I would jump on it right away, my dream came through, I could spend lots of time with her and prove that I am better than the other guy. But I was couscious, only smiled - and I walked away. I let her go, I gave up all the time I could have with her. It was Friday, and trust me, I was doubting myself the whole weekend, I thought I made horrible mistake. What happened Monday? SHE WAS ALL OVER ME, SHE WAS CHASING ME, she dropped the other guy and wanted to be with me. I didn't know as much as I know now, and later on I screwed up other things, but this was a huge realization.

So again, don't do it, stop chasing, walk away, show her that she is not too important to you, show her that you are doing just great - without being with her...
 

Ktowndub

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Dec 10, 2014
Messages
28
Great stuff.. Thanks for sharing that story.. I will take your advice and I'll not send her any message.. Your right,, it's a 2 way street.. It only takes her 10 seconds to send me a message as well.. I will restrain and walk away.. We'll see what happens.. I'm sure that she expects me to reach out to her. At this point, she sent the last message to me and I did not respond. That was monday when she was about to board her connecting flight.. So, as for now, I will adhere to your advice and see what happens.. I'll post an update soon. Again, thanks to all U guys for the awesome support and advice.. Women are tough.. And men shoot at it blindly!!
 

Ktowndub

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Dec 10, 2014
Messages
28
Ok,, here's an update and your advice is welcomed. Since she left for her trip, I talked to her momentarily while she was about to get her connecting flight. We didn't talk again Until late on Christmas night. She was in the bed and was texting me. She asked me if I was dating anyone else other than her. I replied by telling her I don't know what u mean by dating, but I have been going out with others. I asked her why she would ask me that and she said "no reason." So I said how bout u? She said yes, and I asked anyone special? She said "I dunno too early to tell." So I replied by saying "we'll if it's not me, your missing it, but surely you are talking about me :) " she replied " :) im going to bed." (Neither of us use the smiley things much but both of us did in this convo) So, I told her goodnight, she said "night night." And I didn't talk to her again until last night which I initiated. I shot her a text saying "what up gorgeous!! I was thinkin bout u, hope your day was better. Holler at me when u get a chance." About an hour later, she started texting me. I kept my responses short and after about 3 exchanges each, I told her I had to go, hope she feels better (said she was feeling like she was getting sick). Then, apparently, I drunk text her late and asked "U awake?" I got a response about 11:30am this morning saying "I am now." Since then, both of our exchanges have been minimal, her last was the last one, saying her allergies were bad. I am now to the point that I am confused. She is sending mixed signals and short with her texts. But why text me at all if she's just gonna be short with them. I know that I have lost this girl's interest, and I hoped I could've re sparked it. Is it best for me to just wash my hands of this one?? Or should I just go cold for a few days? She comes back home on Tuesday. I was hoping to see her again.. Whatchu think?
 

ray_zorse

Modern Human
Modern Human
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Aug 12, 2014
Messages
1,986
Location
Australia
Dude move on and meet more women. You're over invested and she is toying with u, just using u as a texting buddy when she is bored and has nothing better to do and then leaving you hanging when something better comes along. She probably doesn't intend to fuck with your emotions and give you false hope but she is doing so. You got a lot of great advice above, now follow it and stop thinking your situation is exceptional. You're in standard orbiter role here. Next thing you'll be offering to come over and wash her car or whatnot. I bet if she invites you to hangout again she'll tell you at the last minute that others will be present, or some outrageous shit like that.

If you absolutely must continue with this woman there's only one way to play it. Strictly do not contact her (this communicates your time is scarce). If she contacts you wait a day before responding. Then whatever she said/asked you, ignore it and invite her over for easy date. So no text chitchat, only use text to setup a meet. And the meet has to be in your home and involve no effort on your part (have her grab some takeaway on the way over and then watch netflix with her, or make up some other plausible activity in your home as an excuse for her to come over)... obviously once she is in your home escalate soon, pour her a drink and make a little chitchat to make her comfortable, put her on the couch, soon after take her drink out of her hand and bang, go in for the kiss etc.

Well I think we all know she won't go for this, which is why you are fucking around trying to build rapport over text, but having already been intimate with her u can't accept that kind of downgrade let alone reward it with compliments over text. But if u must convince yourself she's toying with u then do as above... make the ho say no. In general asking for compliance is one of the best ways to know where u stand with a girl.

One last thing: You say you are mid 30s, well I'm 39 and spent many decades as a lame white knight. You need to lift your game and start putting theory into practice, its never too late but the young dudes can afford a lot more sloppiness than us. Tighten it up bro ;)

cheers, Ray
 

Drck

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
Feb 14, 2013
Messages
1,488
The best would be if you move on and meet more women, as ray_zorse suggests. I understand though, sometimes it is not so easy, there are women you vibe with much better, and if you already had sex with her several time so you don't really want her lose her...

Tough situation man, you have to think about your frame. You can't chase, and you want to see her face to face in stead of texting too much...

GC is a great guidance (e.g. ray_zorse above), yet there are lots of exceptions. For example, I met a girl, we were texting/emailing/calling each other every single day for several months, nonstop, 7 days a week, 30-60 minutes per day. Then she came to my place and we had sex the same day. Classical GC guy would most likely think that it is impossible, but it happens.

You want relationship with this girl, that should be your frame, and you should make sure she knows it. You don't want to tell her directly though, rather indirectly - she should read it between your lines, she should feel it by your actions. She should feel that you are very much interested in her, that you like her a lot - but at the same time you will not chase her...

For example: "She asked me if I was dating anyone else other than her. I replied by telling her I don't know what u mean by dating, but I have been going out with others"
>>>> I don't know how other guys, but personally I wouldn't tell her that I've been going out with others. This way it seems that you are dating several women at the same time. Now remember, GC is little bit different, GC tells you to date other women at the same time before you get the one you want, and that should be general frame for most guys. However, in your case, you are really just after this girl and you don't want to date others. You are looking for long term relationship so IMO your frame should be that you date only one girl at one time.

So personally I would be more honest but indirect, for example I would say something like: "I was going out for dates but at this time I am considering more stable relationship, but only with the right girl". It is vague, but she reads that you were going out with other women (good, you show you abundance mentality and different choices) but now you are ready to date only one girl (good, you might be interested in her and she now knows that you are willing to drop other girls - but only if she exerts some effort, which means challenge for her. Challenge is good, assuming that she is interested she will have to prove herself as the "right" girl. Note that with this text you are also placing yourself to leading position because you are the one who is choosing the right partner, and not she. She needs to prove herself to you, not the other way...

She will most likely ask what you mean by "right girl", so you can continue to challenge her. Just don't say the one who works full time and still cook, clean, and in her free time doesn't hesitate to wash your socks... She will be gone forever, LOL

That is actually a great frame: She contacts you, asks you about how you feel about dating her - and you show her that you are very interested. Once she is back you might add that you want to meet her again. At the same time you don't chase her, you don't contact her, so she wonders what is going on with this guy? And she will contact you again, just to hear the same thing: You are very much interested in her, and you want to see her again...

"So I said how bout u? She said yes, and I asked anyone special?"
>>>> I would not ask her that. Again, let her go, don't chase, give her the freedom to do whatever she wants, let her date whoever she wants. Don't care at all. You don't want to be nosy and you don't want to be a friend who shares intimate info with her. But if she asks you - yes, you are very interested, and you definitely want to see her - but you will never chase...

"I am now to the point that I am confused. She is sending mixed signals and short with her texts."
Those are bad signs. A girl who is very interested in you will never confuse you. She will make it clear that she wants to date you. She will never sent mixed signals, and if she does she will make sure that you understand what exactly they mean. She will want to talk to you more, not less.
But the whole thing is that you created quite a messy frame, and she is probably confused herself, she probably can't figure you out, is hesitant, thus sending confusing messages...

When is she coming back? Once she's back invite her out and see if she goes. If she goes, good, you push for sex again. If not, if she makes silly excuses, she is most likely gone...


Next time make sure you have a simple and clear frame, make it easy on yourself: You are just a simple guy, she doesn't expect sophisticated seducer. Make things simple: if you don't have a GF you can date more girls at the same time. Go out and have fun. Once you start seeing girl more often and things are getting serious, start dropping other girls and focus more on her - without chasing, without overly investing, without getting too much emotional about it... This way she will know exactly what you want (only her) and because you are not chasing she will remain attracted...

Hope it helps
 

Ktowndub

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Dec 10, 2014
Messages
28
Awesome stuff guys.. A lot of helpful info.. I really appreciate you taking the time to read and respond.. She comes back on Tuesday and I will see what happens from then, but I'll not chase.. She still has a couple things she left at my place and she knows, so.. We'll see..
 

Ktowndub

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Dec 10, 2014
Messages
28
Update... Need some more advice.. First off, I am seeing another girl but that situation is not as attractive as this one.. Maybe because the other one is more available and this one is proving to be quite a challenge. I do click more with the first girl and I want more with her.. I really believe that my biggest challenge in this is the fact that there is a guy that she used to date that is back in the picture. This is the guy that she had the date with, in which led to our discussion that ultimately brought the realization that we were spending too much time together. Now, I haven't chased this girl since we cooled off. I have stayed on her radar, reaching out only a couple times while she was gone on her trip. The last time we talked was on Sunday. We exchanged a few texts and made plans that she was going to cook me dinner and we'd see a movie when she returned. That was this past Sunday. She came back from her trip yesterday, early. Last night, I reached out with a text saying, "(girl's name), don't make any plans for Saturday night, I want to take you somewhere.. " she instantly responded saying "What?" "Where?" ... I responded saying, "You'll find out Saturday, just leave your schedule open.." And I left it at that.. She text me this morning saying "I can't make any promises." .. I haven't responded and thought it best not to. I want it to appear that it doesn't phase me. I want to pursue this girl, & I know that although I have lowered my chances by not being in control of what was happening the first go around, I am still in the running. My thoughts are that If I am able to get another chance, I will stay in the right frame and control the situation better. I just want that opportunity... So, in my attempt at this, how would you respond? Should I just wait until Saturday, acting as if I never received the text, or that although I did receive it, it didn't phase me? I know that if I respond, then I will essentially be making it easy on her to flake. The situation with that guy is that he works out of town and is in town until next week. That's what I think is the interference with this Saturday. I know that some will say, "Dude, let this girl go." But that's not what I want to do just yet. The only mistake I made was when we were seeing each other, I should have not allowed ourselves to see that much of each other. She stayed over 9 times in the last 2 weeks that we were seeing each other and we never had a bad time until that last night when I screwed up and showed a weakness with her going out with another guy. Since then, I have gone ghost for the most part, and she has twice made reference to us going back out, and once made reference to us as "dating".... Shoot me some advice on how to best control this situation and how to increase my chances that she does not flake on me for this Saturday. I know that if she didn't want to go, she would've said that she couldn't go or that she had other plans. However; she first asked "where?" Last night and then semi flaked this morning saying "I can't make any promises." I'm sure that the probability rests on the fact of is this other guy going to want to take her out Saturday or not. I understand that, I just want to show that It doesn't phase me. I would rather put it in his hands to screw up this time and make her available....
 

Smith

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Sep 14, 2013
Messages
1,017
The way you asked her out makes it easy for her to flake on you. You probably should have told her your plan for Saturday night (at least tell her if it's a drink or bite so she can prepare) , since asking a girl to allocate a certain time for you without letting her know what it's about makes it pretty easy for her to reject your offer or flake on you. Put yourself in her shoes. Wouldn't it be random if a girl suddenly ask you to not plan anything on Saturday night but she wouldn't tell you what you guys are going to do? It's pretty frustrating if you're a busy person who doesn't want to waste their Saturday night. That's probably why she told you she can't make any promises because she's uncertain what she's getting herself into. It probably has nothing to do with the other guy. Let's say if the other guy or even her friends asked her out on Sat night, but their plan is clear and to the point, which one do you think she's likely to choose? Probably his or her friends because it saves her mental energy.
 

Drck

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
Feb 14, 2013
Messages
1,488
Update... Need some more advice.. First off, I am seeing another girl
>>>> Whoa! Good job, that is exactly the advice you are looking for!

but that situation is not as attractive as this one.. Maybe because the other one is more available and this one is proving to be quite a challenge. I do click more with the first girl and I want more with her..
>>>> You invested a lot into this girl, you keep thinking about her, you keep analyzing, you keep trying to find ways that will work out.... In reality there might be no ways. Remember, it always takes 2 for the relationship, you can be invested in her 95%, you can feel that this is great match, but if she doesn't feel the same she is GONE, no matter what you do. She simply doesn't feel the same way like you, and unfortunately it is ALWAYS her feelings that decide - not yours...

With girls in general, you always have to be VERY CAREFUL how much you invest into her. You want her to INVEST INTO YOU, not the other way. Anytime you are investing into her, anytime you are doing more than she does you are essentially chasing. As you already know, chasing is not attractive, as a matter of fact, it is repulsive to many girls...


I really believe that my biggest challenge in this is the fact that there is a guy that she used to date that is back in the picture. This is the guy that she had the date with, in which led to our discussion that ultimately brought the realization that we were spending too much time together. Now, I haven't chased this girl since we cooled off.
>>>> You are thinking about her every single day, you are obsessed with her. You go to sleep with her picture in your mind, and you wake up whispering her name. Do you think that she does the same about you? Do you think that she can't sleep because of you? What does she do to make this relationship work? Remember, girls are the relationship experts, not guys...

I have stayed on her radar, reaching out only a couple times while she was gone on her trip. The last time we talked was on Sunday. We exchanged a few texts and made plans that she was going to cook me dinner and we'd see a movie when she returned. That was this past Sunday. She came back from her trip yesterday, early. Last night, I reached out with a text saying, "(girl's name), don't make any plans for Saturday night, I want to take you somewhere.. " she instantly responded saying "What?" "Where?" ... I responded saying, "You'll find out Saturday, just leave your schedule open.." And I left it at that.. She text me this morning saying "I can't make any promises." ..
>>>> Exactly. You are chasing again. You want her to reserve time for you so you can be with her (on Saturday). Think rationally - if she were hot about you she would want to see you yesterday or today, she wouldn't hesitate just to stop by and say Hi. Yet she is not promising anything... Bad sign, red flag,...


I haven't responded and thought it best not to. I want it to appear that it doesn't phase me.
>>>> Don't try to "appear". Appearances are fake, girls are very good at reading through false appearances, they pick up on small clues you have no idea you are even giving out. Be real - it shouldn't phase you. Stop thinking about her, let her go, focus on another girls. At this time she is not interested. She may come back, but again, the reality is the she may never come back...

I want to pursue this girl, & I know that although I have lowered my chances by not being in control of what was happening the first go around, I am still in the running.
>>>> Again, you want to chase. I know, chasing feels really good, I used to love chasing, till I got tired because there were absolutely no results. When we used to live in caves many moons ago, chasing was perhaps the only dating skill we men had. We were faster than girls, we could have chased them quite easily, then if she wasn't seduced enough we perhaps hit her over the head with bamboos, and finally dragged her to our cave, had a nice happy family... Unfortunately we evolved, we can't do it anymore...


My thoughts are that If I am able to get another chance, I will stay in the right frame and control the situation better. I just want that opportunity...
>>>> You cannot control her feelings, thus you have no control over the situation. By chasing you are making her feelings more negative, which means that the more you are chasing the more she runs away...

So, in my attempt at this, how would you respond? Should I just wait until Saturday, acting as if I never received the text, or that although I did receive it, it didn't phase me?
>>>> Yes, wait till Saturday and say something brief and nice, just time and place where you meet her. My assumption is that she will make some lame excuse, and that she will not reschedule. Which means she is gone.

I know that if I respond, then I will essentially be making it easy on her to flake.
>>>> Yes. Thus you should Man Up. Or much better: Man the fuck up! :)

The situation with that guy is that he works out of town and is in town until next week. That's what I think is the interference with this Saturday. I know that some will say, "Dude, let this girl go."
>>>> You know, many guys here including myself were in the same situation. We all tried to "correct" things, we all tried to get another opportunity. Guess how many of us were able to do it, how many of us got that chance again? My guess is 0, and if not very low number...

But that's not what I want to do just yet. The only mistake I made was when we were seeing each other, I should have not allowed ourselves to see that much of each other. She stayed over 9 times in the last 2 weeks that we were seeing each other and we never had a bad time until that last night when I screwed up and showed a weakness with her going out with another guy. Since then, I have gone ghost for the most part, and she has twice made reference to us going back out, and once made reference to us as "dating"....
>>>> Now you are justifying her behavior. You are trying to find out some logical reason why she should give you another chance. This logic may work for you. But it doesn't work for her, she goes by feelings, she could care less about your logic.. Don't justify her behavior, she is either attracted to you or not.

Shoot me some advice on how to best control this situation and how to increase my chances that she does not flake on me for this Saturday.
>>>> The best advice is the same like before: Let her go, stop chasing, stop thinking about her, focus on another girls. When her attraction is gone you can't control the situation. Stop focusing on her, stop putting her on a pedestal, focus on your life...

I know that if she didn't want to go, she would've said that she couldn't go or that she had other plans. However; she first asked "where?"
>>>> Stop over-analyzing, stop reading her mind, stop justifying and explaining any clues she may have left, stop believing in false hope she may have unintentionally given you, stop putting her on a pedestal.... She is only a girl, there is lots of other girls and you are spending all of your time thinking about just this one... She will either go or not, there is really nothing you can do, you won't charm her in any way, she already knows you. If she is attracted she will go. If she is not attracted she is just being nice about it as she feels really bad because she knows that you like her a lot and want to do everything possible to make it work, whereas she has no feelings for your at all...

Last night and then semi flaked this morning saying "I can't make any promises." I'm sure that the probability rests on the fact of is this other guy going to want to take her out Saturday or not. I understand that, I just want to show that It doesn't phase me.
>>>> The only way you can show it is to drop her, walk away and date other girls. That is the only language she understands...

I would rather put it in his hands to screw up this time and make her available....
>>>> IMO if nothing else, this is a great learning opportunity. One thing is to read about how chasing doesn't work, and the other is to have personal experience...


Hope it helps, let us know how it's going...
 
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