Requirements for starting pick-up?

Axis

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In a bodybuilding-forum (yeah, not the most reliable source) I read, that before starting dating, you should first make sure to have your life in control.
This guy said you should have friends, hobbies, interests, career and mind (meant as steady inner game) and then start working on women.
This brought me to thinking, as I didn't start to approach girls yet and I'm far away from having these factors handled. Regarding these logically, it does make sense.

So, what do you think how important these points are for meeting women?
And under what conditions did you start pick up? Did you already had all of these?
 

Howell

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Axis said:
In a bodybuilding-forum (yeah, not the most reliable source) I read, that before starting dating, you should first make sure to have your life in control.
This guy said you should have friends, hobbies, interests, career and mind (meant as steady inner game) and then start working on women.
This brought me to thinking, as I didn't start to approach girls yet and I'm far away from having these factors handled. Regarding these logically, it does make sense.

So, what do you think how important these points are for meeting women?
And under what conditions did you start pick up? Did you already had all of these?

There is some reason in only dating girls once your life is stable and independently full. A lot of trouble comes about with immature people mating too soon and making the rest of their lives extra difficult.

There is also some reason in dating as soon as you possibly can so that you become more experienced and are more practiced with different social situations, and have been exposed to more hobbies, people, etc.

I'm wary whenever people tell me stuff like this. Usually it's coming from a place of "I make a point that I treat women better than anyone else" as a form of moral superiority that they've developed as a sort of unconscious mating strategy (I've lost a friend by pointing this out to him, btw -- so probably don't point this out to whoever said this).

If dating is something that's supposed to lead to marriage, then there's some value in not doing it until you've got other areas of your life in order. But if dating is more just making close sexual friends with women and self-exploration, this advice is not suitable whatsoever.

So it depends what you mean by dating.

I advise you not make a big deal of it. People who give this kind of advise in my opinion generally take things too seriously and have an odd sort of pride in being the "most realistic", aka, the biggest downer, in whatever group they get in. There image of an ideal man has no real sense of humor.

Seduction is supposed to be fun though, not a job! It can certainly be a risky game, but with birth control, heightened anonymity, and at least most people getting a bit of sex ed (mostly from the internet), it's far less risky than it was 100 years ago.

Besides an open mind, there are no "requirements" for this path.

Howell
 

Axis

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I get, what you mean. It's somewhat a really vague statement from guys, who take themselves too seriously. They praise perfection to lift themselves over other people with their "superior" mindset.

My goal is to start approaching women and make experiences. No bigger plans, like marriage, there. So from my point of view, there shouldn't be anything holding me back from starting out with pickup.

But let's say, we look at this from the point of view from the women. Let's say this guy is a good conversationalist and attractive, but struggles in life, for example has no friends or a boring life (no interesting hobbies, etc).
In that case, how important are these factors in correlation to displayed value?
 

Ross

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Bodybuilding forums tend to have very bad advice for picking up women. These are guys who typically spend a lot of time focused on one aspect of pickup - the way they physically look. Start asking for much more and you're going to get the general BS that most guys throw out as advice.

There's literally no requirement for starting pick-up. When I started I had few friends, certainly had hobbies/interests, but no specific future in mind. I just started asking pretty girls for their phone numbers in high school and worked from there. Always do what you can.
 

ray_zorse

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I've been reading Sasha Daygame's recently released ebook "The Daygame Bible" and he does say that you really cannot succeed with women until you are okay with yourself...

This makes sense, I mean a guy who is depressed, has no hobbies, interests or friends, is overweight and unhealthy, and spends his time watching daytime TV... how is he going to fire himself up and be playful and funny with women, engage them on topics of mutual interest, be relatable and so forth? If he starts working on his fundamentals (fashion and fitness) then at least he has something he can relate with the typical girl on (because they're under societal pressure to be fit and have good fashion)... if he gets some friends he will at least have conversation practice and will be able to practice adding value to others' lives (perhaps by supporting his friends through difficult times, praising them, helping to organize outings, having good ideas, introducing them to each other and so forth)... if he gets some interests then he will have something to say when asked "what did you do this week?" or "what are you interested in?"... which would obviously help him at lot when he's on a date with a hot woman... if he does all this he probably won't be depressed anymore since his life will be so much more interesting and it will bring more of a sparkle to his eye and a "joy de vivre" which women pick up on... so I am certain he is gonna have a lot more success with women than if he just moped around being a slob and saying "oh hell, why can't I get laid?".

Having said all that, the above things are external, what really matters is you love yourself and enjoy life. This is basically a confidence thing and I speak from experience since I have some shame issues that held me back for a long time, unfortunately if you do not believe you are high value, then it will be difficult to convince women that you are high value. Note this has nothing to do with any external factors such as friends, hobbies, interests, fashion, fitness etc... you could have none of those but still have the firm belief that you are a special guy, perhaps because you have been treated that way all your life and received lots of love and attention and firm boundaries and guidance... unfortunately almost nobody in today's society is really free from that little voice in their head that says "you are not good enough", in most people that voice is so internalized that you are not consciously aware of it... basically every fat person you see or every internet/shopping/gambling/drinking/smoking/porn/sex addict, or anyone whose life is obviously out of balance, is someone who is not happy with themselves inside, and will constantly be subject to shame spirals (that voice in the head gets out of control and leads you to a binge or extended sickie or staying at home masturbating to porn or picking at your pimples etc). If this is you, then you're probably not ready to succeed consistently at pickup yet, but you still should be practicing every aspect of pickup whilst you get your shame issues handled and start learning to love and accept yourself.

Ray
 

Axis

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Thanks for the answers, guys. What I understand is that these things aren't necessary, as long as I'm happy with myself. But this unfortunately doesn't comes out of nowhere. So in the end, they do matter to a certain extent.
What keeps me from loving myself, is that I'm worried, that I come of as someone, who has a boring life even though I like it like that.
I don't actually have friends, only aquaintances, with whom I can't really form deep friendships with and only hobbies I do by myself such as working out.
So orientated on the tips you gave me: To actually become happy with myself, so I can throw myself in the dating world, should I just be happy with these circumstances and cut these worries out?
 

Howell

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Axis said:
Thanks for the answers, guys. What I understand is that these things aren't necessary, as long as I'm happy with myself. But this unfortunately doesn't comes out of nowhere. So in the end, they do matter to a certain extent.
What keeps me from loving myself, is that I'm worried, that I come of as someone, who has a boring life even though I like it like that.
I don't actually have friends, only aquaintances, with whom I can't really form deep friendships with and only hobbies I do by myself such as working out.
So orientated on the tips you gave me: To actually become happy with myself, so I can throw myself in the dating world, should I just be happy with these circumstances and cut these worries out?

The brief answer here is: yes.

The more I work on my seduction skills, the more that I realize that it's parallel to my ability to know what I want and what I am doing in the world. It sounds like you are embarking on a quest to identify what it is you love. What you love about yourself; what you love about other people; what you love in particular; what you love in general. This, in my opinion, is one thing that's really worth doing, and worth doing well. It is one of the great challenges every young man who recognizes himself as such must take, if he is to teach himself to be upwardly mobile.

It also sounds like solitude is your primary obstacle for personal growth, as of now. There is beauty in solitude though, and I think it is important to recognize and accept it. Some of the most useful realizations a person can have he has while he is alone. However, there is a point where solitude becomes overly self-indulgent and you need to connect with other people and have some greater reverb on your thoughts and identity. When this occurs, the challenge is to find new ways of bringing new people into your life who are valuable and who you can really learn a thing or two from. And thus you arrive on this forum, as there are unidentified mental blocks that limit your ability to bring new and valuable people into your life, and the minds here at GC are devoted to helping you break those down and becoming an open and successful (however you define that) person.

Don't worry so much though. Don't be happy or sad about your current circumstances. Instead, accept them for how they are, and then identify where it is you would like to be. You recognize that things really aren't so bad, but you also recognize that things could be A LOT better. It is your task now to identify HOW you are going to take action to make your life better, and HOW you DEFINE "better", to begin with.

I wouldn't recommend you "throw" yourself into the dating world, but instead I'd recommend you set clear, actionable goals, to slowly ease yourself into becoming the man you know you can become. This path is not a sprint, but a marathon. The people who take their dreams seriously know that they need to take their time and put in consistent, reasonable effort, to achieve them.

Start small, pace yourself, and build yourself up. Perhaps start with "get a girlfriend" or even, "talk to at least 3 girls every Tuesday and Thursday between X and Y activity". Something that simple can benefit you hugely in the long run if you keep it up... you can't even imagine.

Regards,
Howell
 

Axis

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Thanks for the answer Howard. It really helped me. Like you said, I'm currently on the journey to find out, who I really am. I search ways to improve myself and try to step out of my comfort zone. But I always had these worries in the back of my head, that kept bringing me down.

Ok, so what I get from all the answers is, that in the end, all that matters is how confident and happy I am with myself. These factors are a way to obtain this state, but are optional as long as I'm comfortable with who I am.

I'm glad that I know that now.
 
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