Where did I go wrong?

Zaxxon23

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
May 26, 2015
Messages
25
Currently hitting up the bar scene working on cold approach. Other night I take off for a moment to get some antacid from my truck and come back to find a moderately pretty girl by where I was sitting with her friend. We immediately hit it off, quite frankly she's flirting with me pretty heavy. Set up some chase and sexual frames and we're doing great. I move her to a booth where she's complimenting me that she never meets someone like this who gets her alone and how I must pickup women all the time (if only she knew lol), and she's clearly very excited snuggling up close searching for kisses (which I don't do until we can get privacy), and doesn't even want to talk anymore just wants to look in my eyes and feel me up. Well I'm thinking the time for talking is done let's get her home. I close...and close...and close. It gets ridiculous she's putting up walls I just can't get past. She wants clearly to get away but just won't do it. Keeps going to the bathroom with her friend and keeps coming back. Her friend is even chearing me on for Petes sake. Yet at the same time sorta blocking me. The chick I'm after loves the dominance yet her friend is always hovering saying things like "she wants you to let her go" when I'm pulling her close (which she clearly enjoyed).

So finally the night is winding down and I'm trying to close like crazy. This girl is insistent we will not go to my place or hers and wants me to go with her to hang at her friends. She says well get privacy there, it's the 21st century she's a strong independent woman yada yada...I say you need me to lead here you clearly want to spend time with me I don't want to go to your friends house. She keeps insisting and gets in her car saying I need to go with her back to her friends.

Finally I say you need me to lead not follow. Nice meeting you and I left. While I probably could have got laid had I gone with her it just felt like I'd have to work and work some more while her friends sitting there cockblocking us.

What did I do wrong? Should I have just gone with her regardless? I suppose I could have closed better there at the end so that's a learning experience. And I spent darn near an hour trying to close before that so maybe I should have forced the issue sooner? It just seemed so weird because she was all over me and for a beginner I was doing pretty darn well (or at least imo). Any thoughts beyond "next!"??
 

ray_zorse

Modern Human
Modern Human
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Aug 12, 2014
Messages
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I think you engaged in too much "meta pickup" i.e. talking to her and her friend about pickup rather than practicing pickup itself. So it would be good to get better at deflecting this. All this planning ahead for intimacy sounds like BS IMO, she was testing how thirsty you'd get if sex were dangled in front of you. You were to some extent unreactive to this, but to some extent fell into her frame by engaging her on it (or allowing her to engage you). An appropriate response might have been Chase's "haha, what are you thinking, I'm not that easy!". In trying to isolate you also persisted past the point where it wasn't persistence anymore but looked a little chasey, she knew she "had" you at that point and started pushing your buttons. You did well at the end though -- IMO had you followed her, intimacy wouldn't have occurred. Just do this earlier next time, screen her out as too attached to her friend and unwilling to isolate herself (a wing can help here, see RDawg's recent report), and move on a lot earlier.
Ray
PS Had you built more attraction this mightn't have occurred.
PPS You probably didn't use sufficient plausible deniability, this is what can lead to logical discussions/frame battles.
 

Zaxxon23

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
May 26, 2015
Messages
25
Thanks again for the reply. You seem to be very willing to help us beginners out. Thanks for that.

Some further info, I did get her away from her friend but somehow her friend just kept showing up each time we got away. Even near the end when I finally gave her a kiss by her car and got her further warmed up with some neck kisses and ear biting, next thing I know her friends behind us telling us how hot this all looks.

Her friend was watching out for her and that's cool and all, but it got sorta old. Felt like a puppy with abandonment issues and the friend was even there with her boyfriend. It's like for Petes sakes let us be.

i should note that the only point talk of pickup occurred (or at least the leading part) was at the end when she was insisting on leading the rest of the encounter. I will have to handle that better next time. As well as slow down on my physical aggressiveness I guess. And not allow it to get drawn out. I was thinking that was an issue for sure.
 

ray_zorse

Modern Human
Modern Human
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Aug 12, 2014
Messages
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Yeah, going back with her could've been okay but only if you could pass it off casually, once you get into logical discussions about hooking up it feels a bit wrong, you'll lose a lot of freedom of action because both of you will be waiting for you to escalate, whereas it would be a pretty tough seduction environment. Hmm.

What I think would be a good mantra for you here is "backoff, rinse, repeat". I use this technique almost every day, e.g. I'm talking to some chick on the train and I say "how about a coffee later in the week", she's like "nah I have exams" (translation: I don't have enough of a connection with you to want to meet you later on), so I immediately say "oh really, are you prepared?" ... and start talking about the exams, like the coffee was just the smallest deal in the world... after I have built some more connection I'll then say "yeah so let's exchange numbers and we can sort something out later", she says "ohh nahh I'm going back to China after exams", I'm like "haha you're going home for a holiday? you'll have to see every family member, every school friend... sounds exhausting"... blah blah blah keep talking, build more connection, eventually I say "cool so it sounds like you're pretty busy, so instead of meeting up later how about a quick game of darts, it takes only 10mins"... she says "ohh I have to go meet my friend"... and so on, as long as she's still talking you can still be persisting, but do it in a really casual way.

In your case, after you've said "let's get out of here" and she's said "I can't leave my friends" then you could quickly change direction and ask for a lesser level of compliance "ohh in that case why don't we go sit outside, it's very XXX in here"... putting as much distance between her and her friends is a good idea, although I did this once only to have her keep squinting across the club to try to keep track of them, so I think in that case it's basically a lost cause. Your goal is to move her away from her friends and have her get relaxed about it. When you're sitting outside the club it's only a small step to "let's go across the road to have some coffee / get a snack / etc"... if she raises objections from there you can say "your friends will be fine" and if she's still anxious have her text them. Et cetera...

Ray

PS The business about her constantly disappearing into the toilets with her friend for consultations sounds deadly, I bet you were just waiting like a chode for them to get back, you want to appear like your time is valuable so if this happened to me I would either start flirting with another of her friends, or go approaching.
 

HellAtlantic

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Jul 1, 2015
Messages
301
I agree, following her to her friends house would've been you chasing her but you put so much work into her at that point and already crossed the kiss/touch barrier worst that could've happened was a blowjob, at best maybe you could've banged her outside her friends house. But you went home with no pussy so what did you gain? There are no judges to award you PUA points for "playing it the right way". Sometimes you gotta have a devil may care attitude and say "well this is against PUA rules but fuck it it's either this or I go home empty".

I also agree the bathroom consultations would've got old pretty quickly, I would've left the booth/area and just hung out at the bar and let her find/chase you when she got out. Her friend clearly was the alpha in that group. I would've got pissed if I was putting on moves on the girl and her friend was chiming in with commentary. I probably would've sarcastically said "can we get some privacy or do you want us to teach you some stuff" with a half smirk. Shame on that girls BF for allowing the cockblocking to continue like that. Can we all just be brothers and let a guy get his dick wet?
 

Zaxxon23

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
May 26, 2015
Messages
25
Ironically enough, I saw this girl a few more times at the bar and we chatted a bit. She was a bit bummed that I had left like that, and I explained I was still rough around the edges but still enjoyed our interaction. Then gave her my number and said she could text me if she wanted, then proceeded to go about my thing. Now I know this is not standard process around here and definitely a bit on the weak side, however it was probably the best course I could take in that situation.

Since then I had hung out twice with her and her friend (and her friend's boyfriend), each time she wanted to kiss me at the end of the night. Yet would never do anything more. Obviously I didn't much care at that point as I had moved on, but obviously something still stuck with her about me.

So lo and behold, about a week and a half ago she texts me out of the blue. She's house sitting and I offer to stop by for some company. We talk a bit and I of course flirt pretty heavily with her. She says she's friend zoning me but I'm like "you invited me to your house sitting situation to friend zone me? lol that makes less than zero sense." So then I turn it back on her. She comes back from the bathroom and is sitting with very open body language. At which point I give her hell about busting my balls and that I'm not going to make the move. She has to. At which point she jumps on me but will not have sex. I have to settle for a hand job and she states "next time"... I'm like sure whatever we'll see.

She calls me out to the bar two nights later and ends up at my place an hour later and we get intimate. Which then leads to about five nights of sex over the next week and a half, which of course is a FWB deal breaker. LOL I guess I gotta learn things the hard way always! Anyways last night ends with swimming in her pool naked for one last encounter since she tells me she's starting to fall in love and knows how this will end and how we need to call it quits at least for now.

Anyways, what's the moral of posting to this old thread? I guess to say that it really helps to reinforce so many things this blog preaches. Dominance and not giving in is powerful. It may not work today, but it can come to benefit a beginner down the road. Chase framing, disqualifying yourself as a boyfriend candidate, setting yourself up as the guilty pleasure, and helping her to be a woman and enjoy being naughty were also extreme benefits as she made clear last night. Through all the bullshit about how I was doing things so wrong, how I should be a nicer guy, how I should "be myself", in the end she finally admitted that the dominant method preached here is powerful. So many times she'd say things like "look what you make me do". "why can't I control myself around you". It's empowering to hear a woman say words like that. And finally, this scenario shows how sex and dominance are so powerful that it can make a woman fall in love soooo quick and strong.

I guess the situation is a bit of a moral victory of sorts (well it was a true victory as well), but a way of saying don't give up when you're rough around the edges to start. Take the victories and savor the learning experiences that the defeats teach you. If you really want a girl to fall in love with you, don't take things slow. And even if you think it's all said and done with a girl, well, you never know what might happen a few months down the road. Using the methods on this blog can leave a strong lasting impression.
 

ray_zorse

Modern Human
Modern Human
Joined
Aug 12, 2014
Messages
1,986
Location
Australia
Exactly. With my current gf it's exactly the same situation, I was a real newbie when I met her, and I was playing the PUA game pretty strictly, she was also being pretty hard to get, like your girl here... NEXTed her several times, etc... and, well, now we are exclusive, I did avoid it for a long time but eventually had to give her what she wants.

So many times she'd say things like "look what you make me do". "why can't I control myself around you".
You can also use this kind of wording as a chase frame, Chase describes keeping up a steady stream of chase frames while escalating... "stop it! you're so naughty..." or "stop being so sexy, look what you made me do!"... or "you're going to eat me, aren't you"... even while I'm blatantly escalating on her, it frames her as the one escalating, and although she laughs it off, it does actually penetrate at a subconscious level through repetition. Also if she's being very passionate it can be good to point this out (there are also times when it's a moodkiller though, so you have to calibrate)... because pointing out her behaviour/moods helps to cement them in her mind for later recollection.

Ray
 
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