The Average Joe and his Relationships

Hey guys,

Speaking as someone who has a low lay count and no LTRs, I'm a little bit puzzled as to how the average guy gets into a relationship....like ever. I've been going out and talking to girls, and I've noticed that most the material on this site is spot on. And what's more is that if I make even one or two small mistakes, I'm out. Women are very unforgiving in terms of dating and relationships. Especially at the start. I've noticed that the few times I have gotten laid, I executed everything nearly perfectly. In every other situation, the girl pretty much always went cold on me after the first date.

But this begs the question: How do so many average men find relationships in their lives? Ever. At all. I'm pretty sure that most guys make a lot more of these mistakes than I do. This is not to say that I would consider myself "good" at this stuff. But I like to think that I'm better than the average guy who just randomly stumbles around and hopes to somehow get results. Still though, it seems that most guys my age have had several LTRs by now.

And on a related note: Are there circumstances in which women are more forgiving of moving slow/being boring/making mistakes? For example: I had a friend who recently got into an LTR with a girl from our social circle. He waited six dates to make a move...SIX! And by what he described, she was ready to fuck him on date #1 (I.e. She literally hopped into bed with him and started scooting her body into him...and he did nothing!). I feel like had this been any of my dates, attraction would have expired long before date six. lol.


P.S.

In case this post looks like I'm trying to complain or to get sympathy or anything like that, I'm not. I'm merely trying to understand the relationship dynamics at play here.

Bboy,

I was going to answer this one (while mentioning that this has been brought up several times on the board), but it sounds like you answered your own question!

And on a related note: Are there circumstances in which women are more forgiving of moving slow/being boring/making mistakes? For example: I had a friend who recently got into an LTR with a girl from our social circle. He waited six dates to make a move...SIX! And by what he described, she was ready to fuck him on date #1 (I.e. She literally hopped into bed with him and started scooting her body into him...and he did nothing!). I feel like had this been any of my dates, attraction would have expired long before date six. lol.

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Social circle!

Of course there are many nuances and problems with social circle -- the biggest problem probably being that your options are completely limited to the girls involved in that social circle. This means that if any of those girls friendzone you, or end up with boyfriends, or don't find you attractive for whatever reason, then you're shit out of luck.

If you're good with social circles and active/outgoing, then you can play the social circle card by hanging out with friends of friends (repeatedly) to keep expanding your social circle and giving you more options. The advantage of social circle is that girls are a lot less likely to find you "creepy" or go "cold" on you, but again, you're still limited by whatever girls you happen to meet through friends. That being said, if you make friends with a good social circle with attractive girls, the probability of there being more attractive girls to be introduced to increases.

I believe social circle is worth pursuing in a passive way (meaning that if you happen to be going out and meet some cute girls through friends, then you should certainly pursue opportunities), but cold approach still reigns king, in my opinion. With cold approach, the entire world is basically your social circle; the biggest benefit is that you get to meet any girl you want, and the quality of girls you date (when you become good) immediately begins to skyrocket.

- Franco

Franco has pretty much said what I was about to write when I read your post Bboy.
I think at least 4 out of 5 guys find their women through social circle (work, study etc.). The rest are spread on online dating (tinder etc.) and cold approaches, where as the cold approaches are probably more in favor of the girls than boys.

Yeah, that's basically what I've been trying to do. I don't actively seek to expand my social circle and make it my main medium of meeting women. But if I just so happen to run into a cutie through it, that's just a bonus. Still though, I feel like I should know some of the basics of what's going on:

Why are girls in social circle more forgiving of guys moving slow/being average than they are in cold approach?
Despite the fact that we can clearly move slower in social circle...there's still obviously a point when we're going to get friend zoned. When is it?
Who counts as "social circle"? Does a girl I meet at a party hosted by my social circle (assuming she's not already a part of it) count as social circle? Or is it strictly the 10-20 people that I hang out with on a regular basis?

Hey Bboy

These are some really good questions that I've always thought of myself, it bothers me when I see these average guys with these hot girls and it's like dude really, how did you pick her up? I'll even watch them and iin most cases the guy looks like he's has no idea what he's doing. Like you said there's no way that many people use or know about seduction but I'm curiouser where this board goes, keep preaching bro

-Smooth

Bboy,

Why are girls in social circle more forgiving of guys moving slow/being average than they are in cold approach?

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This one's probably more straightforward than you realize: there's a level of safety/security/trust there between friends when they're introduced to each other.

Who do you think is more likely to be a creepy guy for the girl? The guy she randomly meets on the street or in the club, or the guy that was introduced to her by her best friend(s)?

Right.

So basically, the guy has a leg up on being assumed "not creepy" from the beginning, and if a girl from social circle finds him attractive, then she'll likely want to know more about him and give him the benefit of the doubt.

Despite the fact that we can clearly move slower in social circle...there's still obviously a point when we're going to get friend zoned. When is it?

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Welcome to the headache of social circle game! The best answer to this one is: whenever she wants it to be.

She can make you chase her for months and maybe even years making you think you have a shot, but then suddenly one day she ends up with a boyfriend out of nowhere and you're friendzoned. Or, the minute she sees you, she decides you're not attractive in one way or another, so she friendzones you on the spot. However, since you're a "friend," she of course treats you nicely, so if you're not socially savvy with this stuff, you can think that maybe she's interested or that you have to try harder to get her. Suddenly you're spending extra hours trying to chase a girl who friendzoned you right from the beginning.

In this sense, cold approach is very nice. A girl immediately knows what you want, and all you have to do is push for meeting up and see if she invests back in you. If she does, then it's on. If she doesn't, then she's just not interested, and she likely won't care much to see you again (which lets you know that you can move on rather than chase). Occasionally a girl will try to bring you into her friendzone if she thinks you have value outside of being a boyfriend or lover, but this is pretty easy to spot because she'll avoid going on dates with you and/or ask you to come to "group" things with or her or to do favors for her.

Who counts as "social circle"? Does a girl I meet at a party hosted by my social circle (assuming she's not already a part of it) count as social circle? Or is it strictly the 10-20 people that I hang out with on a regular basis?

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Parties hosted by friends are considered social circle. Anyone you meet there has a connection to you, even if the degree of separation is far apart (i.e. a friend of a friend of a friend). So generally at parties, it's always assumed that new people you meet are connected to you in some way. This is why most girls are generally warmer when you meet them at parties -- they are there to meet new people who aren't complete strangers to them.

As a side note, if the party is not hosted by friends, and you wander into a random house party (say at a college), it's somewhat of a combination of social circle and cold approach. Girls will usually be initially warm to you because they assume you have a reason to be there or possibly know someone else; however, if a girl asks you why you're there or who you know and you don't have a good answer, she could immediately go cold on you as well. So it's somewhat of a hybrid situation.

- Franco